Talk:Margaret of Provence

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by WikiProject Royalty and Nobility.

France Mid‑importance

	France portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject France, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of France on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.FranceWikipedia:WikiProject FranceTemplate:WikiProject FranceFrance articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Middle Ages Low‑importance

	Middle Ages portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Middle Ages, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Middle Ages on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Middle AgesWikipedia:WikiProject Middle AgesTemplate:WikiProject Middle AgesMiddle Ages articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Women's History Mid‑importance

	History portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women's History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Women's history and related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women's HistoryWikipedia:WikiProject Women's HistoryTemplate:WikiProject Women's HistoryWomen's History articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

[Untitled]

Counts of Provence does not list #5, it only goes up to Ramon Berenguer IV, Count of Provence. m.e. 09:42, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Untitled

He is numbered Ramon Berenguer IV of Provence; V of Aragon. Eugene van der Pijll 21:50, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Move to Margaret of Provence

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was Moved Malinaccier (talk) 02:13, 20 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Marguerite of Provence → Margaret of Provence —

The article should be moved to Margaret of Provence. She is better known as such, as evidenced by Google Book Search results for "Margaret of Provence" and Google Book Search for "Marguerite of Provence". Besides, most of the authors who refer to her as Marguerite of Provence are long dead; Margaret is far more popular name for this woman among the modern authors (1990 - 2009) - 95 modern authors refer to her as Marguerite, while 295 modern authors refer to her as Margaret. The article should also be consistent with articles about her sisters and close relatives; all those articles use their Anglicized name when it's available (Eleanor, Beatrice, etc). Surtsicna (talk) 16:35, 12 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support per evidence above; we usually anglicize French royalty. Would you want to move her daughter as well? Septentrionalis PMAnderson 04:49, 13 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- It is hard to tell which name is commonly used for her daughter, as there are lots of women known as Margaret/Marguerite of France. Generally, "Margaret of France" is used more often than "Margruerite of France". However, it is hard to prove which of the names is more used for the daughter of Margaret of Provence. Consistency between related articles matters, so the move could be justified somehow. Surtsicna (talk) 15:10, 13 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

I would not, however, use Margaret for all Marguerites. We could do worse than to straighten out Marguerite of Navarre; until I checked just now, I presumed we were using that for the wife of Henry IV, whom we choose to call Marguerite de Valois. I suspect there are a large number of false links. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 04:49, 13 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Marguerite of Navarre is used slightly more often than Margaret of Navarre, though the move could be justified by consistency with other Margarets of France. On the other hand, Margaret of Valois (298 hits) is used far more often than Marguerite de Valois (23 hits). Articles about French princesses called Margaret who are not known as "Margaret of France" should be treated seperately because we can determine the common name; Margarets of France who are actually referred to as "Margaret of France" are more complicated cases. Surtsicna (talk) 15:10, 13 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry; I've been unclear. I have seen Henry IV's queen, whom we call Marguerite de Valois, called Marguerite of Navarre sufficiently often to believe it to be standard usage, and that we should therefore either have a disambiguation page or move Henry II's queen - or both. The idea of cutting the crap and calling Henry IV's queen Fat Margot would satisfy me, but I'm sure somebody would object as not encyclopedic tone. :->Septentrionalis PMAnderson 20:43, 13 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.