Talk:Creamed honey

FIRST batch?

Perhaps I'm the only person to have thought this, but... if whipped honey is made by adding some whipped honey to regular honey, and waiting for it to transform the whole batch... How did they ever make the FIRST batch? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.72.21.221 (talk) 01:23, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

As per the last sentence of the paragraph describing production: A seed batch can be made by allowing normal honey to crystallize and crushing the crystals to the desired size. --Allen3 ^talk 03:00, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

heated-pasteurized

Is all commercial whipped honey heated-pasteurized? -69.87.204.78 (talk) 00:29, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

My personal understanding is no, most commercial honey is not pasteurized. The hydroscopic nature of honey means that most harmful microbes will be killed due to lack of needed water. It is still possible despite this for some yeast or bacterial spores to survive in honey. These potential spores are the reason most commercial honey in the United States carry a warning against feeding honey to children under 12 months of age. Their immature immune system is unable to protect against the stray bacteria which would cause no trouble to an older person. --Allen3 ^talk 00:46, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Set Honey

In the UK we have 'set honey'. A local producer outlines their process for making this product here: http://www.rowsehoney.co.uk/articles/honey-and-you/questions-and-answers Pasteurising isn't specifically mentioned, but seeding is. Should the term Set Honey be added to the 'also called' line. Or, if pasteurising is the defining element, should set honey have an entry in its own right in wiki/honey? --TheSeatonian (talk) 17:17, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Create crystallized honey article and merge?

Modified from Talk:Honey:

I suggest replacing this article (whipped honey) with a new article on crystallized honey, and then moving the coverage of whipped/creamed honey to a section within that article titled "controlled crystallization". (The alternative spelling crystallised honey would redirect to it, as would pages that currently redirect here.)

Arguments in favour:

(1) Since whipped/creamed honey and naturally crystallised honey both contain crystals, but differ in the size of those crystals, they have enough in common to justify a combined article.

(2) This article (whipped honey) has been a stub since 2004, and may be too narrow a topic for a reasonable-length encyclopedia article. There is currently no article dedicated to crystallised honey, suggesting that it also is too narrow a topic on its own. But if the two were to be incorporated into a longer article on crystallised honey with sections on both natural and controlled crystallization, that article might be a more fitting length.

(3) The term "candied honey" appears to mean different things in different places. It is listed as an alternative name for whipped/creamed honey, and currently redirects here. However, in Australia (and perhaps elsewhere) the term "candied honey" refers to naturally crystallised honey, and not to whipped/creamed honey. If all forms of honey that contain crystals were to be covered in a single article, then (a) we could redirect "candied honey" to it without favouring one meaning or the other, and (b) there would be a natural place to describe the distribution of this and perhaps other similarly ambiguous terms.

Note: Although I could probably make the changes myself in theory, I'm inclined to leave it to more experienced editors. I would not be very efficient at it, as I'd have to read up on how to do moves, redirects and other matters involved in restructuring articles. Don't have time for all that in the foreseeable future.

202.22.165.5 (talk) 07:13, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Hi. I haven't seen any objection to this move, so I can gladly do it for you. However, I don't have time at the moment to make any additions, but I think that would be necessary before a move should be made. it might be confusing for readers to come to an article titled "Crystallized honey" and find only information about whipped honey. I can easily do the redirects and stuff, but would you mind adding a paragraph or two about crystallized honey that is not whipped? If you could do that, the move would make a lot more sense. I can probably come back in the future and work on it, but not anytime in the near future.Zaereth (talk) 18:27, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Candied vs Creamed honey

--58.179.52.5 (talk) 00:44, 11 November 2012 (UTC) Further to point 3 below...."In Australia it was common years back to create candied honey (not creamed) by leaving honey in a jar long enough and probably quicker with the lid open or half off. Candied honey in this manner is not easily spreadable and therefore (probably) only this characteristic differs it from creamed honey, which we can also obtain from honey providores."

I am curious that "to make creamed honey, it is heated as this would remove any water it had acquired...heating candied honey is what we do to return candied honey back to a normal honey's liquid and consistency states"...I would expect that "any heating of honey is to thin out (less sticky) the honey before; and to make it easier for whipping; and that it is this aeration process that produces the creamy texture." I have always believed honey to be naturally healthy and almost antiseptic; and have never hesitated to give it to my kids even before they were 12 months; a practice I deem somewhat healthier than eating dirt, grass and other unmentionables they also did at this age....suggest "text" could also be added to the article.

From beekeepers site..."Q: What is candied honey ? Chemically, honey is a solution of sugars, minerals, acids and proteins dissolved in water. The sugars account for around 80% of the honey while water only makes up around 17%. Since there is a high content of sugars relative to water, the sugars can't remain dissolved in the honey and it is common for them (mainly glucose) to form crystals. When this happens the honey is said to be 'candied.' Candying is a naturally occuring process and how readily a honey candies depends mainly on its glucose and moisture content, although the conditions it is stored under can also contribute to candying (storing honey in the fridge makes it candy faster). Some honeys like yellow box for instance can take years to candy while others can candy overnight. In fact, honey has been found buried in Egyptian tombs and is still edible after thousands of years!"

Happy to offer a more formal text and agree with other contributors that a single article with sections of two type (or more) would be of great value.

Well, let me start by saying that there are a lot of questions here, and some false information, so I would be very wary about the reliability of that source. For example, it is true that remnants of honey, thousands of years old, have been found in Egyptian tombs, but it was definitely not edible.

When talking about creamed, whipped, or candied honey, we're really talking about semantics. I've never heard the term "candied honey" used in the US, but it is possibly common in other countries. So what really needs to be done is to describe the different states or types of honey, and then begin to describe the different names people use for them.

Creamed or whipped honey is not made by aerating it. In fact, you don't want air to mix with it if at all avoidable.

Creamed honey was invented by Professor Elton J. Dyce, at Cornell University, in 1935. It is made by first pasturizing it, by heating to around 70 degrees C (155 degrees F). Then it is cooled down, and "seed crystals" are added, to begin crystallization. The growth of crystals is controlled in such a way that you get extremely small glucose crystals, causing the honey to form a thickened, whitish-colored spread. The easiest way to control this growth is to start with lots of very small seeds, by using already creamed honey. Then put it in a refigerator, at a temperature of about 8 degree C. This slows down crystal growth and allows many more, smaller crystals to form. It takes longer than normal crystalized honey, which forms the fastest around 15 degrees C. The honey may also be stirred during crystallization, to help keep the crystals small, but care needs to be taken avoid air mixing with the honey while stirring. The honey is heated before crystallizing only to kill any yeast that exist in it. If the yeast causes the honey to ferment, the process will not work.

Crystallized or candied honey is made by letting the honey crystallize naturally. Leaving the lid off the jar does not help, as this causes the honey to absorb moisture from the air, and could lead to it going bad (fermenting). (The main reason honey keeps so well is because it doesn't have enough water for germs to survive in.) Exactly how fast the honey crystallizes, and how large the crystals will be, depends on the exact concentrations of sugars it contains. Honey with more fructose than glucose, such as chestnut honey, will not crystallize. However, honey with very high concentrations of glucose, such as brassica honey, will crystallize almost immediately. Clover honey may take a couple of months to crystallize. Some honeys produce very large crystals, while others produce much smaller crystals, all depending on the proportions of the specific sugars.

It should also be noted that, while the health benefits of honey have been well documented, infant deaths from botulism have occured by feeding babies honey. It is well known that honey is the cause of these deatha. For instance, babies in the US have died from eating Japanese honey, containing a type of botulism found only in Japan. The only possible cause was the honey. Honey tends to contain much higher concentrations of botulism spores than most other foods, or even dirt. I would strongly discourage you from feeding it to infants, whose immune systems cannot handle botulism attacks. It may have worked out ok before, but it only takes one wrong batch to change your life forever. Zaereth (talk) 17:59, 12 November 2012 (UTC)