Talk:Astor Piazzolla

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Archives

1

Assesment of Style

Listening to his music I think there is a strong similarity to serial music, which could be important in the assesment in relation to contemporary classical music since serial music is a rather important current in contemporary classical music. Of course, the similarity probably stems from Tango as a genre. I am not a music critique myself, even on an amateur level, so I only note it here and won't edit. Maxigas (talk) 02:42, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Archive/Musical Career

I archived comments here to Archive1, everything before 2007. Two items had no title, which I have given (according to a swift survey of the contents) and categorised according to first post date; feel free to change title or position if you should think I was in error in doing so.

Furthermore, I'm thinking of 1. either merging Musical Style and Musical Career, by implementing all biography details in Biography and musical style details in Musical Style, 2. or somehow keep current situation but at least creating some chronologic ánd stilistic overview of Piazzolla's achievements. It might be interesting to have a clear view on how Piazzolla evolved stylistically + qua players (from Quartet to Quintet, which instrumentalists etc). Few people know how to place stuff like his operita, his fusion period with his sun, when Ziegler introduced his modern classical piano style etc etc. I'm thinking of something, anyone who has ideas, please help.
thedarkestclear ^Talk 15:56, 25 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Discography

In regard to creating a discography, I suppose it's especially interesting to create a list of recordings that were issued with Piazzolla's consent. I mean, not the numerous issues of live concerts (unless official lives) or (re)collections. For example, Tango: Zero Hour, albeit itself a collection of various recording sessions, is an issue on Piazzolla's behalf. Furthermore, Sur is a film, which could be pointed out. How about his opera... The purpose of this discography section should be to shed a light on Piazzolla's consent in his own discography, anyone who could is highly accepted.
thedarkestclear ^Talk 17:47, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure how to file an official request but I think someone should definitely create pages for some of his albums, especially Nuevo Tango, which I consider to be groundbreaking. It was featured in the book, 1001 Albums You Must Here Before Your Die, which I think would be qualification enough to warrant a wiki article. It'd be nice if someone could do this. 70.48.249.62 (talk) 03:24, 27 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Error in age when he met Gardel

The article says Piazzolla was born in 1921, and that "At the age of 15, he met Carlos Gardel...", which would be 1936. However, Gardel died in 1935.

The site [Todo Tango] has the following to say:

¿Cuándo se produce la primera incursión del joven Piazzolla en el tango? En el año 1934 llega Carlos Gardel a New York, contratado para filmar la película "El día que me quieras" y por esas cosas del destino conoce a un joven de 13 años llamado Astor que era argentino y además tocaba el bandoneón.

So, Piazzolla met Gardel at age 13 (1934).

Steve Fishboy 02:59, 4 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Commented You Tube link..

Commented 4 links - No inidcation uploaders have links with the subject of article, thier agents or recording label etc. In additon some of the clips seem to be TV footage.

How long do Argentine copyright terms last BTW? ( Would I be right in assuming author+70 as that seems to be the de-facto standard in Europe?)Sfan00 IMG (talk) 16:57, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wife and children

His first wife and children should be mentioned (his son played keyboard with Piazzolla and his daughter wrote a biography of him). Badagnani (talk) 23:53, 7 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Quintet

It should be added when he formed his Quintet, and who the musicians are. Badagnani (talk) 18:15, 21 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Copyright violation

Substantial parts of this article have been copied from here. The Wayback machine record shows it to have been written in about 2002, when this article was a stub. Does any editor with knowledge of the subject wish to substitute with original material? I can only delete the copied material with nothing to replace it. --Old Moonraker (talk) 12:16, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There are only so many ways a set of facts can be written and, on reflection, the material here differs sufficiently from the web page I thought was too close. It isn't a copyright violation and my suggestion was not justified. --Old Moonraker (talk) 13:19, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Composers project review

I have reviewed this article as part of the Composers project review of its B-class articles. You can find my detailed review on the comments page. The article is B-class, but needs a lot of work. If you have questions or comments, feel to leave them here or on my talk page. Magic♪piano 14:08, 18 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Astor not Ástor

The correct spelling of Astor Piazzolla does not have a tilda over the first A. The Spanish language version of this wikipedia page does not use the tilda, neither does Todotango.com in their Astor Piazzolla article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.101.5.28 (talk) 18:27, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It goes with the accent mark. People do not use it because its on an upper case letter and therefore it did not appear in old tiping-machine record covers. Orthographically it has to be there. --Againme (talk) 20:21, 1 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Can we please come to a consensus about this, and use one version consistently? Currently, the article title is Astor, but the first word in the lede is Ástor. The Infobox is headed Ástor, but the caption is Astor, then Birth Name is back to Ástor. Throughout the article, there are 12 Ástors, and 5 Astors. What a mish-mash! -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 22:24, 1 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think I included the accent mark every time now. We just need to move back the title. Againme (talk) 00:08, 2 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Done. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 00:14, 2 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Astor doesn't have an accent because it's an English name. --Chvsanchez (talk) 02:16, 6 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

My CD of Tango: Zero Hour (1998) does not use an accent. From the booklet: 'Astor Piazzolla imaginaba la hora cero como el momento después de la medianoche...'. Should be moved back. Rothorpe (talk) 02:57, 6 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think a CD cover or booklet are really germane to this issue. We need evidence about whether the composer himself used the accent or not. If User:Againme is correct, it would be an error to not use it, and if Piazzolla didn't use it, we'd need to find out why not. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 06:21, 6 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I googled 'Ástor Piazzolla'. Many pages of results, but only Wikipedia has the accent. Rothorpe (talk) 14:19, 6 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I can find no evidence that his name was Ástor rather than Astor. Spanish WP changed it to the accentless form in 2007, and it has not been contested. Rothorpe (talk) 20:58, 10 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

That demands the question, why did at least one Spanish speaker think it was Ástor in the first place?

The fact that something hasn't been changed for a number of years is not, of itself, proof of anything. I'm forever fixing errors (spelling, punctuation, grammar, fact ...) in articles that have been there, unchallenged, since their original version. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 21:29, 10 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It was an issue on the Spanish article's talk page. It was raised in 2008, and got a response in 2011. I don't speak Spanish and don't trust google translate, so following is the Spanish discussion, if anyone cares to translate it for our edification. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 21:36, 10 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

My translations are below. Rothorpe (talk) 00:58, 13 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

¿Astor o Ástor?

Agrego esta sección a fin de evitar nuevos traslados sin discutir.

El asunto de si el nombre correcto era "Astor" o "Ástor" se había tratado hace un tiempo. Como se puede ver en la discusión de Mushii y la discusión de Axxgreazz, se adoptó "Astor" por ser el nombre más utilizado en Internet, además de ser el nombre oficial adoptado por la hija de Piazzolla en su biografía. En una nota personal, ya que para el momento en que se dió el debate yo no había puesto mis manos en el artículo, "Ástor" es una castellanización del nombre original en italiano "Astor" que al escribirlo no lleva tilde, pero al pronunciarlo sí. Algo similar ocurre con Ernesto Sabato, cuyo apellido por partida de nacimiento es sin tilde, pero al castellanizarlo se le coloca el acento.([1]) En caso de que alguien quiera reabrir el debate o tenga un texto que aclare más este asunto y que le de más importancia a "Ástor", se puede tratar el tema aquí. -- KveD (discusión) 20px 23:43 11 mar 2008 (UTC)

I add this section to prevent new changes without discussion.

Whether the name is Astor or Ástor has been discussed for some time. As you can see at Mushii's Talk page & Axxgreazz's Talk page, Astor has been adopted as the most used on the Internet, as well as being the 'official' name adopted by Piazzolla's daughter in her biography. On a personal note, since when the debate began I had not touched the article, Ástor is the Spanish form [castellanización] of the original Italian name Astor [sic] which is written without an accent, though one is pronounced. Something similar occurs with Ernesto Sabato [Italian name of an Argentinian], whose name at birth had no accent, but which gets one when translated into Spanish [neither article on him has an accent, apart from one in the Spanish used to show pronunciation, Sábato]. If anyone has a text that clarifies this and gives more weight to Ástor, let them discuss it here.

¿Acaso no prohíbe la legislación argentina el uso de nombres en lengua extranjera? Es más, según mi información, solo se pueden escoger nombres de un listado, salvo que lo haya llevado un antepasado, pero en este caso debe estar correctamente castellanizado. Además, no debemos olvidar que con anterioridad a la era de la computación, los acentos sobre las mayúsculas rara vez se colocaban, por la dificultad técnica que ello significaba. Los apellidos tienen una regla diferente, pues allí se debe respetar la ortografía extranjera (por eso Sabato no lleva acento). En consecuencia, recomiendo trasladarlo a Ástor.—Hlnodovic (discusión) 21:55 12 jun 2011 (UTC)

But doesn't Argentinian law prohibit the use of foreign given names? Furthermore, as far as I know, names must be chosen from a list, unless one wants the name of an ancestor, in which case it must be correctly castilianised. Additionally, we shouldn't forget that before the computer age, accents were rarely put on capitals because of technical difficulties. Surnames have a different rule, that we must respect foreign orthography (that's why there's no accent on Sabato). Consequently, I recommend changing it to 'Ástor'.

A recommendation that was not adopted.

The accent was put there in the first place to reflect the pronunciation. But the daughter's biography has no accent, so it was removed from Spanish Wikipedia. Now only English Wikipedia has the accent. Rothorpe (talk) 01:06, 13 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. In that case, I have no objections to moving it to Astor. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 08:17, 13 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Thanks. Rothorpe (talk) 13:32, 13 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Marcelo Nisinman

"Among his followers, his own protégé Marcelo Nisinman is the best known innovator of the tango music of the new millennium"

Is this a fact? I absolutely disagree with this, but if the community think this is a fact, I think it should at least quote some reference.

fercha —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.16.164.101 (talk) 14:44, 21 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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Are the External Links getting out of control?

There are a whole lot of external links to different performances of Piazzolla's pieces. Are they all important enough to be included? I'm not sure on the policy on this sort of thing, so was wondering what y'all thought. Margalob (talk) 00:02, 26 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it looks like far too many. I don't care much for external links. Most links can be found quickly on Google, so entering them on Wikipedia seems like a waste of time and an eyesore. I don't think there should be any foreign language links, and here there are several. Some or all those YouTube links are probably copyright violations.
–Vmavanti (talk) 03:30, 26 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

"Ástor Piazzolla" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Ástor Piazzolla has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 August 13 § Ástor Piazzolla until a consensus is reached. Bgsu98 (Talk) 20:05, 13 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]