Talk:Asura

Removing the text related to AHURA and Zorastrianism

Please note that this is Hinduism related page. All information about AHURA should be put in AHURA's page. NOTHING is mentioned in Hindu scriptures about AHURA. Hence the forign claim that "AHURA and Asur ( i.e. Anti-sur)are same" is irrelevant and is not accepted by Hindus anyway. Original word in Sanskrit is Sur. A-sur means Anti-sur e.g. a-symbiotic, a-synchronous etc. Putting the information about AHURA in the page for Asur can be considered as vandalism. If at all AHURA is to be refereced, a hyperlink to AHURA can be sufficient in See also section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.61.51.123 (talk) 09:19, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

It's not a "foreign" claim. Read the works of Srikanth Talageri, in particular the book "The Rigveda and the Avesta: The Final Evidence." There are enough clues to surmise that the Vedic 's' sound became the Avestan 'h' sound. The Avesta mentions rivers called Harayu and Haraxvati. Also, while in Rigveda the good are the Devas and the bad are the Asuras, in Avesta the good is Ahura Mazda and the bad are the Daevas. It is fair if this article refers to this.AmritP/SoA (talk) 06:01, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

Citing Tableau(s) I have to 2nd that . I think its more to do with conquests of Aryans over Dravidian where the word Asura is born.

Ahura Mazda was a Demi-God per se and can be traced to Vedic Religion. While Asura Predominantly Hindu NOT Vedic.I am seeing a lot of articles which directly relate Zoroastrianism to Hinduism forgetting they are off-shoot of proto-vedic religion. In essence they maybe the same but in terms of Ritual/Deities/Philosophy they are worlds apart.

The Zoroastrian burial ritual has more in common with Tibetan Shaman-ism than Elemental worship. I can cite many dissimilarities and similarities . That doesn't mean these two religions mirror each other .

The relationship between two religions is not like Abrahamic Religions but diverse and at times non-related. As these two religions evolved in isolation of each other.

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I think it's funny that the asuras (not to mention Ahura Mazda) are so often called deities - which is of course a cognate of deva, which is exactly what they're not.  ;) Bacchiad 19:17, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Asura means demon in hindu mythology also known as rakasha and sri lankan

Incorrect, Asura can MOST CLOSELY be called 'demon' or 'deity' in English but there cannot be, by nature, completely literal translations. Also, Rakshasa are only one type of Asura. While Asura came through Kashyapa, most Rakshasas are descendants of Pulastya. And please, let us not associate Asuras with Sri Lankans!!!AmritP/SoA (talk) 06:03, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

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Possible addition to the "In fiction": There's a thing called Ashura (I'm not too clear on the exact spelling) in an anime, Earth Girl Arjuna. It's some sort of a glowing and silly-looking humanoid giant that the protagonist, Juna, somehow summons to fight on her side against the Raajas. Someone please verify the relevance of this to the article and either delete or add it to the article.

The Chinese of "Asura" is zh:阿修罗, when typing the Japanese Hanji you need to input "a-shu-ra" (アシュラ, 阿修羅). But the correct Japanese spelling of Asura is still Asura (ja:アスラ). Shura (修羅) is now a type of Japanese spirit. The Shura are originally warriors who died in battle then go on to an afterlife where they battle for eons in the heavens. It is obviously that the Japanese Shura was adapted from Hindu Asura (most likely through Buddhism). -- 23:08, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

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Asura is also a deity in Robert E. Howard's Hyborian Age.

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What exactly is the difference between Rakshasa, asura, danava and daitya? --Bolasanibk 06:49, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Rakshasas are earthly monsters who are often gigantic or of hideous appearance, whereas Asuras were not necessarily demons in Vedic times (most of the gods who presided over aspects of society like marriage, law etc were Asuras whereas the controllers of natural phenomena were Devas, also known as Suras (A-Sura = not Sura)), although some were (eg Vritra). Some Vedic Asuras were even the brothers of Devas, for example some of the Adityas were Asuras whereas others were Devas. Daityas and Danavas are specific races of Asuras - Daityas are the descendants of Diti and Danavas are descended from Danu (also mother of the dragon Vritra in earlier texts). Diti and Danu were both wives of the sage Kashyapa. --Grammatical error 15:49, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

This a-sura as "not sura" may be a back-formation from 'a-' being an general indo-european common root meaning not; Asura having cognates in other indo-european gods like good gods (nordic (aesir), iranian) or evil (hindu), and this divine tribe name "sura" is just a later play on the negative connotation and the easily found "a-" carrying the disparaging/negative "not", etc. I believe such is a late folk explaination. 70.59.142.186 (talk) 04:57, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

too much in fancruft in the article

can't we put in on a disambig page? --Dangerous-Boy 03:45, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Done. --Grammatical error 07:08, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

List of Asuras/Buddhist diambig

Vairocana and Virocana are not the same person; Virocana is the Asura king, Vairocana is a universal aspect of Gautama Buddha. Also, the Buddist version of "Asura" is different from the Hindu; while both are linked to from the disambiguation page, isn't it a better idea to call this page "Asura (Hinduism)" and redirect "Asura" to the disambiguation page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dbutler1986 (talk • contribs) 03:50, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

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Ehm ... Buddhism is irrelevant here .Buddhism is an offspring of Hinduism . Asura in Buddhism is a cannibalized/bastardized deity from Parent mythos.

Buddhist Philosophy was taught by Gautama . Buddhist Religion was organized/propagated via Asoka . Thats why all the non related mythos. Just like Son-Goku (Hanuman) Tripaka etc etc.

Remoov'd

ALEXANDER VEGA... It has been inferred that Asura means wind demon.

This looks like it might be a legitimate piece of information, but needs to be correctly placed and clarified. --Trɔpʏliʊm • blah 19:25, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Varuna article: old Asuras as gods native to man, rather than nature.

It states in the Varuna article that: "As the most prominent Asura, however, he is more concerned with moral and societal affairs than a deification of nature." ...So early on in Hinduism before the negative connotations was what distinguished the Asuras from the Devas was that the former (Asura) were gods of mankind, civilization, oaths, society, laws, moral structure and intellectual workings; whereas Devas were natural forces and spirits of the elements etc, wind, sky, rain and physical phenomenon: this is why Mitra & Varuna were Asuras & Devas both? This contrasts other Indo-European religions where possible cognates to Asuras, I am thinking the Norse Aesir but also the Zoroasterian deities, the Aesir were gods of law and contracts, government, order, sworn oaths and duty, dedication etc, whereas the other group of god, the vanir, were more nature spirits, fertility gods, etc. Early IE connections seems to point to that possible for Asuras too? If the Varuna article could be better sourced and clarified at that point, maybe that older distinction, if true, could be added and explained in detail here in this article. 70.59.142.186 (talk) 04:53, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Asuras in the Rig Veda

Here are all the occurrences of the term "Asura" in the Rig Veda:

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda Book 1: HYMN XXIV. Varuṇa and Others.

14 With bending down, oblations, sacrifices, O Varuṇa, we deprecate thine anger:
Wise Asura, thou King of wide dominion, loosen the bonds of sins by us committed.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda Book 1: HYMN XXXV. Savitar.

7 He, strong of wing, hath lightened up the regions, deep-quivering Asura, the gentle Leader.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda Book 1: HYMN XXXV. Savitar.

10 May he, gold-handed Asura, kind Leader, come hither to us with his help and favour.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda Book 1: HYMN LIV. Indra.

3 Sing forth to lofty Dyaus a strength-bestowing song, the Bold, whose resolute mind hath independent sway.
High glory hath the Asura, compact of strength, drawn on by two Bay Steeds: a Bull, a Car is he.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda Book 1: HYMN CVIII. Indra-Agni.

6 As first I said when choosing you, in battle we must contend with Asuras for this Soma.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda Book 1: HYMN CX. Ṛbhus.

3 Savitar therefore gave you immortality, because ye came proclaiming him whom naught can hide;
And this the drinking-chalice of the Asura, which till that time was one, ye made to be fourfold.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda Book 1: HYMN CXXII Viśvedevas.

1. SAY, bringing sacrifice to bounteous Rudra, This juice for drink to you whose wrath is fleeting!
With Dyaus the Asura's Heroes I have lauded the Maruts as with prayer to Earth and Heaven.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda Book 1: HYMN CXXXI. Indra.

1. To Indra Dyaus the Asura hath bowed him down, to Indra mighty Earth with wide-extending tracts, to win the light, with wide-spread tracts.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda Book 1: HYMN CLI. Mitra and Varuṇa

4 The people prospers, Asuras! whom ye dearly love: ye, Righteous Ones, proclaim aloud the Holy Law.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda Book 1: HYMN CLXXIV. Indra.

1. THOU art the King of all the Gods, O Indra: protect the men, O Asura, preserve us.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 2: HYMN I. Agni.

6 Rudra art thou, the Asura of mighty heaven: thou art the Maruts’ host, thou art the Lord of food,

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 2: HYMN XXVII. Ādityas.

10 Thou over all, O Varuṇa, art Sovran, be they Gods, Asura! or be they mortals.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 2: HYMN XXVIII. Varuṇa

7 Strike us not, Varuṇa, with those dread weapons which, Asura, at thy bidding wound the sinner.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 2: HYMN XXX. Indra and Others.

4 As with a bolt, Bṛhaspati, fiercely flaming, pierce thou Vṛkadvaras’, the Asura's, heroes.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 3: HYMN XXIX. Agni.

14 Served by the seven priests, he shone forth from ancient time, when in his Mother's bosom, in her lap, he glowed.
Giving delight each day he closeth not his eye, since from the Asura's body hewas brought to life.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 3: HYMN XXXVIII. Indra.

4 Even as he mounted up they all adorned him: self-luminous he travels clothed in splendour.
That is the Bull's, the Asura's mighty figure: he, omniform, hath reached the eternal waters.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 3: HYMN LIII. Indra, Parvata, Etc.

7 Bounteous are these, Aṅgirases, Virupas: the Asura's Heroes and the Sons of Heaven.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 3: HYMN LVI. Viśvedevas.

8 Three are the bright realms, best, beyond attainment, and three, the Asura's Heroes, rule as Sovrans,

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 4: HYMN II. Agni.

5 Agni, be this our sacrifice eternal, with brave friends, rich in kine and sheep and horses,
Rich, Asura! in sacred food and children, in full assembly, wealth broad-based and during.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 4: HYMN LIII. Savitar.

1. OF Savitar the God, the sapient Asura, we crave this great gift which is worthy of our choice,

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 5: HYMN X. Agni.

2 Ours art thou, wondrous Agni, by wisdom and bounteousness of power.
The might of Asuras rests on thee, like Mitra worshipful in act.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 5: HYMN XII. Agni.

1. To Agni, lofty Asura, meet for worship, Steer of eternal Law, my prayer I offer;

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 5: HYMN XV. Agni.

1. To him, the far-renowned, the wise Ordainer, ancient and glorious, a song I offer.
Enthroned in oil, the Asura, bliss-giver, is Agni, firm support of noble, riches.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 5: HYMN XL. Indra. Sūrya. Atri.

5 O Sūrya, when the Asura's descendant Svarbhanu, pierced thee through and through with darkness,

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 5: HYMN XL. Indra. Sūrya. Atri.

9 The Atris found the Sun again, him whom Svarbhanu of the brood
Of Asuras had pierced with gloom. This none besides had power to do.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 5: HYMN XLI. Viśvedevas

3 You will I call to feed the car-horse, Aśvins, with the wind's flight swiftest of those who travel:
Or also to the Asura of heaven, Worshipful, bring a hymn as ’twere libation.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 5: HYMN XLII. Viśvedevas.

1. Now may our sweetest song with deep devotion reach Varuṇa, Mitra, Aditi, and Bhaga.
May the Five Priests' Lord, dwelling in oblations, bliss-giving Asura, hear, whose paths are open.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 5: HYMN XLII. Viśvedevas.

11 Praise him whose bow is strong and sure his arrow, him who is Lord of every balm that bealeth.
Worship thou Rudra for his great good favour: adore the Asura, God, with salutations.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 5: HYMN XLVIII. Viśvedevas.

1. WHAT may we meditate for the beloved Power, mighty in native strength and glorious in itself,
Which as a magic energy seeking waters spreads even to theimmeasurable middle region's cloud?

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 5: HYMN XLIX. Viśvedevas.

2 Knowing full well the Asura's time of coming, worship God Savitar with hymns and praises.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 5: HYMN LI. Viśvedevas.

11 May Bhaga and the Aśvins grant us health and wealth, and Goddess Adid and he whom none resist.
The Asura Pūṣan grant us all prosperity, and Heaven and Earth most wise vouchsafe us happiness.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 5: HYMN LXIII. Mitra-Varuṇa.

3 Imperial Kings, strong, Heroes, Lords of earth and heaven, Mitra and Varuṇa, ye ever active Ones,
Ye wait on thunder with the many-tinted clouds, and by the Asura's magic power cause Heaven to rain.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 5: HYMN LXIII. Mitra-Varuṇa.

7 Wise, with your Law and through the Asura's magic power ye guard the ordinances, Mitra-Varuṇa.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 6: HYMN XX. Indra.

2 Even as the power of Dyaus, to thee, O Indra, all Asura sway was by the Gods entrusted,

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 6: HYMN XXII. Indra.

4 Tell thou us this, if at thy hand aforetime the earlier singers have obtained good fortune,
What is thy share and portion, Strong Subduer, Asura-slayer, rich, invoked of many?

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 7: HYMN II. Āprīs.

3 We will extol at sacrifice for ever, as men may do, Agni whom Manu kindled,
Your very skilful Asura, meet for worship, envoy between both worlds, the truthful speaker.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 7: HYMN VI. Agni.

1. PRAISE of the Asura, high imperial Ruler, the Manly One in whom the folk shall triumph-

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 7: HYMN XIII. Agni.

1. BRING song and hymn to Agni, Asura-slayer, enlightener of all and thought-bestower.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 7: HYMN XXX. Indra.

3 When fair bright days shall dawn on us, O Indra, and thou shalt bring thy banner near in battle,
Agni the Asura shall sit as Herald, calling Gods hither for our great good fortune.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 7: HYMN XXXVI. Viśvedevas

2 O Asuras, O Varuṇa and Mitra, this hymn to you, like food, anew I offer.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 7: HYMN LXV. Mitra-Varuṇa.

2 For they are Asuras of Gods, the friendly make, both of you, our lands exceeding fruitful.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 8: HYMN XIX. Agni.

23 While, served with sacrificial oil, now upward and now downward Agni moves his sword,
As doth the Asura his robe.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 8: HYMN XX Maruts.

17 Even as Rudra's Sons, the brood of the Creator Dyaus, the Asura, desire,

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 8: HYMN XXV. Mitra-Varuṇa.

4 Great Varuṇa and Mitra, Gods, Asuras and imperial Lords,

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 8: HYMN XXVII. Viśvedevas.

20 Or, Asuras, when ye have sheltered the worshipper who goes to sacrifice, at eve

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 8: HYMN XLII Varuṇa.

1. LORD of all wealth, the Asura propped the heavens, and measured out the broad earth's wide expanses.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 8: HYMN LXXIX. Indra.

6 As such we seek thee now, O Asura, thee most wise, craving thy bounty as our share.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 8: HYMN LXXXV. Indra.

9 A sharpened weapon is the host of Maruts. Who, Indra, dares withstand thy bolt of thunder?
Weaponless are the Asuras, the godless: scatter them with thy wheel, Impetuous Hero.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 8: HYMN LXXXVI. Indra.

1. O INDRA, Lord of Light, what joys thou broughtest from the Asuras,

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 9: HYMN LXXI. Soma Pavamana,

2 Strong, bellowing, he goes, like one who slays the folk; he lets this hue of Asuras flow off from him,

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 9: HYMN LXXIII. Soma Pavamana.

1. THEY from the spouting drop have sounded at the rim: naves speed together to the place of sacrifice.
That Asura hath formed, to seize, three lofty heights. The ships of truth have borne the pious man across.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 9: HYMN LXXIV. Soma Pavamana

7 Soma assumes white colour when he strives to gain: the bounteous Asura knows full many a precious boon.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 10: HYMN X.Yama Yami.

2 Thy friend loves not the friendship which considers her who is near in kindred as stranger.
Sons of the mighty Asura, the Heroes, supporters of the heavens, see far around them.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 10: HYMN XI. Agni

6 Urge thou thy Parents, as a lover ' to delight: the Lovely One desires and craves it from his heart.
The priest calls out, the sacrificer shows his skill, the Asura tries his strength, and with the hymn is stirred.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 10: HYMN XXXI. Viśvedevas.

6 This Bull's most gracious far-extended favour existed first of all in full abundance.
By his support they are maintained in common who in the Asura's mansion dwell together.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 10: HYMN LIII. Agni Saucika Gods.

4 This prelude of my speech I now will utter, whereby we Gods may quell our Asura foemen.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 10: HYMN LIV. Indra.

4 Thou, Mighty Steer, hast four supremest natures, Asura natures that may ne’er be injured.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 10: HYMN LV. Indra.

4 As first among the lights, O Dawn, thou shonest, whereby thou broughtest forth the Stay of Increase,
Great art thou, matchless is thine Asura nature, who, high above, art kin to those beneath thee.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 10: HYMN LVI. Viśvedevas.

5 They strode through all the region with victorious might, establishing the old immeasurable laws.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 10: HYMN LVI. Viśvedevas.

6 In two ways have the sons established in his place the Asura who finds the light, by the third act,

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 10: HYMN LXVII. Bṛhaspati.

2 Thinking aright, praising eternal Order, the sons of Dyaus the Asura, those heroes,

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 10: HYMN LXXXII. Visvakarman.

5 That which is earlier than this earth and heaven, before the Asuras and Gods had being,—

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 10: HYMN XCII. Viśvedevas.

6 Straightway the Rudras, Maruts visiting all men, Falcons of Dyaus, home-dwellers with the Asura,—

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 10: HYMN XCVI. Indra.

11 Thou, comprehending with thy might the earth and heaven, acceptest the dear hymn for ever new and new.
O Asura, disclose thou and make visible the Cow's beloved home to the bright golden Sun.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 10: HYMN XCIX. Indra.

2 He goes to end his work with lightning flashes: wide is the seat his Asura glory gives him.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 10: HYMN XCIX. Indra.

12 So, swiftly Asura, for exaltation, hath the great Vamraka come nigh to Indra.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 10: HYMN CXXIV. Agni, Etc.

5 These Asuras have lost their powers of magic. But thou, O Varuṇa, if thou dost love me,

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 10: HYMN CXXXI. Indra.

4 Ye, Aśvins, Lords of Splendour, drank full draughts of grateful Soma juice,
And aided Indra in his work with Namuci of Asura birth.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 10: HYMN CXXXII. Mitra. Varuṇa.

4 That other, Asura! too was born of Heaven. thou art, O Varuṇa, the King of all men.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 10: HYMN CXXXVIII. Indra.

3 In the mid-way of heaven the Sun unyoked his car: the Ārya found a match to meet his Dam foe.
Associate with Ṛjiśvan Indra overthrew the solid forts of Pipru, conjuring Asura.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 10: HYMN CLI. Faith.

3 Even as the Deities maintained Faith in the mighty Asuras,

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 10: HYMN CLVII. Viśvedevas.

4 As when the Gods came, after they had slaughtered the Asuras, keeping safe their Godlike nature,

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 10: HYMN CLXX. Sūrya.

2 Radiant, as high Truth, cherished, best at winning strength, Truth based upon the statute that supports the heavens,
He rose, a light, that kills Vṛtras and enemies, best slayer of the Dasyus, Asuras, and foes.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 10: HYMN CLXXVII. Māyābheda.

1. THE sapient with their spirit and their mind behold the Bird adorned with all an Asura's magic might.

Hokie Tech (talk) 01:28, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

anti-surya

Could it be that the reason the word 'asura' gradually came to have a negative connotation
was because it was mistakenly taken to mean anti-surya?
Just granpa (talk) 23:15, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps also through confusion with Ashur
Just granpa (talk) 00:06, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

osiris

Asura is probably from osiris which means many-eyed.
--Just granpa (talk) 23:40, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Protection Folk Beliefs

I think the article can be further expanded. Are there traditional folk practices/beliefs practiced to ward off Asuras? Correct me if I'm wrong (with respect) I think Tamils may have such practices. Something about Devil Dancers or something??? (sorry dont mean to offend)

Henry123ifa (talk) 23:23, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

Spliting of article

The intro starts about Hinduism but later we see different accounts of asuras, do we not need this article split? --Aleksd (talk) 10:12, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Capitalization

Hello, I noticed that most places in the article asura was capitalized but that sometimes it was not. I changed to all lower case, but my edit was reverted. Any thoughts on how it should be capitalized? Thanks, SchreiberBike talk 21:13, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

I noticed your edits and was in agreement. I can see no reason for using upper case here.Iztwoz (talk) 21:39, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Avesta is not the Persion version or analogue of the Vedas

The article as written makes a connection between the Avesta of Zoroastrianism and the Vedas of Hinduism which is not justified. I understand the ethnic and cultural similarities between Persians and northern Indians and the shared features of Zoroastrianism and Hinduism but the Avesta is not a version of the Vedas nor is it analogous. Even to say it is analogous in being the oldest text in the religion would be wrong as the Gathas are the oldest texts in Zoroastrianism. Other than being very old religious texts of two groups which share an ancestral connection the two texts are not similar and the reader should be not be misled into thinking the similarity implied by the article is correct.

FWIW most of what the article contains about why daeva means different things in Zoroastrianism and Hinduism is speculation presented as fact. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.91.29.44 (talk) 20:43, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Sura is Goddess of wine?

Take your pick below, but I think Goddess of wine is not the foremost translation of SURA :

sura m. a sage, learned man View this entry on the original dictionary page scan.

sura m. a symbolical N. for the number "thirty-three"(from the 33 gods;See deva - )

sura m. the image of a god, an idol

sura m. the sun

sura m. (said to be) equals kṣura -

sura m. (prob. fr. asura - as if fr. a -sura - and as sita - fr. a -sita - ;thought by some to be connected with 2. svar - ) a god, divinity, deity (surāṇāṃ hantṛ - m."slayer of the gods", Name of a particular form of fire, son of tapas - )

http://sanskritdictionary.com/?iencoding=iast&q=sura&lang=sans&action=Search — Preceding unsigned comment added by Two Wrongs (talk • contribs) 01:13, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

In Slovenia

In Slovenia people around the Ajdovščina and river Soča knew in pre Christian times so called "ašure" (Ashure), which were evil spirits and their spirits were embodied into old, dried up roots of trees... River brough those roots (branches) to the rocky riverbed and grinded the wood through the sharpened stones. More sharpened, "ugly", weird looking were branches, more "evil" their spirits (Ašure) were. Those brances were carrying evil and catastrophes.

Pre-Christians in Slovenia? Who the Germans? Romans? Illyrians? Huns? Do you have any documentation of this?Entrepic (talk) 11:17, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 22 March 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved as original move was undiscussed per WP:RMUM. See related discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Disambiguation#Asura. No prejudice if an WP:RM to formally move to Asura (Hinduism) is initiated. —Bagumba (talk) 10:01, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

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Asura (Hinduism) → Asura – The Asura was moved to Asura (Hinduism) without any discussion [1]. It is a controversial move and there are several reasons why Asura (Hinduism) is the primary topic as

• Google book search clearly shows results about the Asura of Hinduism [2]
• The page Asura (before the move) had 32,215 page veiws, while Asura (Buddhism) has only 9,684 veiws. The disambiguation page has only 636 views, clearly establishing that people were not coming to Asura (before move) to check other topics.
• Alternate option: Article can remain with the name "Asura (Hinduism)" for neutrality in page name, but Asura should be redirected to it as per above reasons.

Regards, .245CMR.•^👥📜 09:18, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

@Bagumba: Please close this accordingly for now.

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Conversion of this article

@JaMongKut: Please don't change until this discussion is over. You have wanting to convert this article into a mix. However, I completely oppose this because of the following reasons:

• Most of the content is about Hinduism
• I have already covered that Asura in Hinduism is the primary topic
• Asura in Buddhism already has a separate article and there is no need to create three separate pages
• It will be very confusing as it would uncertain whether other paras come under Hindu or Budha
• I have already made a separate para to give focus on Buddhism in the lead.

Regards,.245CMR.•^👥📜 16:40, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

@245CMR: This is not only Hindu article, but it was earlier also a broad-concept article. Discussion there was over, and the consensus was reached, you were also one among the discussion. But, there was no diagreement,until the discussion ends.Also, It is not only the consensus of that discussion. And as I already stated, this article its3elf about the conceptand not of any specific religious ideology, in its origin. See the revision before my addition, it also have a different and independent Hindu section and Buddhist section both. I've added, extra Buddhist info. No it was never conluded in the discssion, that Asura in Hinduism is primary topic. I and few others have also given you many points,why it can't be primary. No, it will have no confusion at all. There are various such articles in Wikipedia, which covers points from various fields. Also, I've already added phrases like,"In Buddhist literature,","In Hindu scriptures,". Also there's seperate section for all those points which are not common. You last point do not justify for the article ofthe concept rather than the article of specific religious views. Earlier by me give equal weightage. Please, share your views. Let me know if you agree now. Thank You So Much. JaMongKut (talk) 04:28, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

So let the primary topic decided this time. This useless to create three separate articles, eg. Deva is divided Deva (Hinduism) and Deva (Buddhism). The discussion was not taken further on the disambiguation page. Other articles like Krishna (a WP:GA article) is written in similar form which I am suggesting for Asura. Krishna has significance in Jainism too but all can agree that Krishna of Hinduism is the primary topic and needs not any explanation in the title. .245CMR.•^👥📜 11:15, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

@245CMR: Nothing to decide, The Hindu cannot be the primary, due to various points given by me and other editors.The Krishna for Jainism is minor deity, which find very few mention in Jainism (also, it finds some mentions in Buddhism too),but it holds a great place in Hinduism, that's why main article will contain more information about Hinduism. But that's not the case here, Asuras are equally important in both religions. No there is also Deva page, which is but diambiguation, also there none of the Hindu or Buddhist is primary, but I was earlier also thinking to drop there for proposal to have a broad-concept article there too. Upto this was only my views for your points.And this is my discussion point below, Why are you going in that direction, which is not related to the discussion. We are not here for discussing, which is primary, as already that move's discussion is over, so need to discuss primary at all. And please try to incorporate all views.JaMongKut (talk) 11:53, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

Rather than giving WP:OR analysis on what the primary topic is let us see what reliable WP:3PARTY sources have to say about this: Britannica, Universalis, Enciclopèdia Catalana all describe them in the context of Hindu mythology. Moreover none of them even mention other religions besides that. It is fairly certain that Hinduism is primary topic for this. Though I wouldn't have a problem with moving this or having a singular article for both religions, I am certainly going to give more weight to third-party sources than the user who disruptively moved the page and continues to POVPUSH Buddhism in each of their edits with no heed to WP:PRECEDENT or other generally followed principles here on wiki. Gotitbro (talk) 13:37, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

@GotitBro: But as I've already mentioned, there's no point of discussing the primary topic, as no move is going to happen now. And making it include all religious views, was the consensus of the discussion on disambiguation talk page. Also, earlier onhy discussion was diverted from the addition of new information to primary topic. And NOWWW, the whole topic of Discussion has been changed by the Newcomer from the article discussion to the discussion on Editor. Does it really allowed by Wikipedia Policies ????

@JaMongKut: The current state of article is not completely removing Buddhism out and wait for more editors to join, I am trying to invite them. .245CMR.•^👥📜 12:53, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

{{ping|245CMR)) That's the same what I want to convey you from the starting of this, and also that, discussion. Don't remove out Buddhism, Let it be all incusive, as it was. New editors are truly welcomed, In fact, it will help to reach the consensus very soon. But some editors are totally moving out of point of discussion. One last suggestion, please if you want to invite, then please invite editors having neutral opinions, which is recommended. But wait, does the first statement in your message does mean you agree now ??JaMongKut (talk) 13:32, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

I am not telling you to completely remove Buddhism as the 4th para of the lead is about info of Asura in other religions and thus, it will provide a link to Asura (Buddhism). However, I am not in favour of changing into this [3] as per the above reasons. .245CMR.•^👥📜 09:17, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

@245CMR: Please don't say favor of. Please tell what's the reason . How can it degrade the article. This favor of is of no use. You are just wasting time in such discussions. Although favor can also many times looked on, but not in such cases and these favors. If this was only your reason, then it's not fine. I'm adding back the info. We were discussing whole for that reason only. JaMongKut (talk) 08:17, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

Hinduism is clearly the primary topic as per veiws, britanicca, books, etc, so its clear that Hinduism should be mentioned at first. Buddhism already has a separate article. .245CMR.•^👥📜 08:41, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

@MRRaja001, Redtigerxyz, Ms Sarah Welch, JRDkg, Fylindfotberserk, and LearnIndology: Please join this discussion if you're interested..245CMR.•^👥📜 08:45, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

@245CMR: How can you invite one by their names. This seems to call friends for POV pushing.This seems like calling a gang. I've already stated the third opinion should be of Neutral view, as per WP policy. Instead , we can also go to Administrator Noticeboard, if yet you think your favor reason is valid. JaMongKut (talk) 09:53, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Source Removing

I've already cleared, none of the information is deleted. I've rearranged as per other articles where sections of different views comes at last. At least tell me the reason, how can this rearrangemnt degrade the article. Instead you are the one who is deleting references. Pali is also the language of the scriptures in which Asura occurs. Hence, its mention is important. Also, there is no such guidelines of order as I've stated in the discussion with earlier editor. None of the discussion was started for this or none was point put forth on previous discussion, as you were the one disagreeing, hence you should have started. But I've started new discussion for this now. You are just reverting saying consensus consensus, Tell me reason for your revet and how can the edits degrade the article. JaMongKut (talk) 07:53, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

@JaMongKut:

• Most of the sources of the article is about the Hinduism
• There is no need to add Buddhism as this article is clearly about Hinduism (as per WP: Primary)
• It is already proved by page views, Britannica, books, etc.
• I am not telling you to completely remove Buddhism, but Hinduism should be put first as per the above reasons
• If you don't agree with the above reasons, then you are pushing your POV .245CMR.•^👥📜 07:59, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

And also the concept of Asura in Buddhism is derived from the Hindu one .245CMR.•^👥📜 08:02, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

I and many editors already cleared Hinduism can't be primary. You are trying to degrade article in order to make Hinduism primary. This article is not about Hinduism only. "Hinduism should be first", Isn't it an POV pushing than my edits? Is it compulsory for me to agree such favor reasons. I've earlier also advised you to let's go on Admin Noticeboard, if you still disagree, but you never responded.

Also, How can the 3rd century BCE religion in which the concept was from starting borrow the concept from the medieval religion which was formed by uniting many schools of philosophy. Concept of Asura was not taken from Hinduism, but from Vedic religion. Also. of this is the criteria then article such as Samsara, Moksha and Lingam(from Buddhist stupa) should be made Jain and Buddhist then, as this is borrowed from this schools. This in this para is not what I really demanding but putting forth an answer to your opinion.

JaMongKut (talk) 09:01, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

First, it was never settled properly and second the concept of lingam (Gulimak eg) was way before the Buddhist stupa (also that adoption is just a theory). You can't ignore other points and please share why Buddhism should be at first. @JRDkg, MRRaja001, and Redtigerxyz: Please join the discussion, this is very important to settle the matter. .245CMR.•^👥📜 18:18, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

I agree with .245CMR.•^👥📜, you are pushing your POV related to Buddhism and removing credible sourced content of Hinduism. Plus, there is already an article on Asura which talks about Buddhism. JRDkg (talk) 15:11, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

I've many times made myself cleared. I'm not removinganything. I think you have some misunderstanding, again see the changes made in the edit. Instead you're the one who were removing the earlier sources of Hindu section, and now also images, pali for no reason stated and also new sources added by me as 245CMR asked for, which he was removing for no proper reason. Also you are reaaranging sections without any proper reason to POV push Hinduism in front of all others, if one has rearranged in better way,having stated proper reason of benefits of that rearrangement For first para there's nothing such guideline or generalizatuion that Hinduism should be first. Just at least tell me the portion which I've removed..JaMongKut (talk) 14:17, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

Though I previously opposed this, the best thing to resolve this is to just rename the Article to Asura (Hinduism)-which you first proposed-as majority of the content of this article is about Asura in Hinduism. .245CMR.•^👥📜 14:30, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

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• Statue of an Asura (阿修羅 Axiuluo) in Dahui Temple; Beijing, China.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 06:23, 30 June 2021 (UTC)