Talk:Apostasy in Islam

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Weird sentence

This sentence, under "Characteristics", is weird:

"Not all types of apostasy are punishable by death. Only major apostasy requires execution."

What is "major apostasy", and also the article have been discussing how it's execution all the way for apostasy, but this time only major ones require execution. What does that mean? It's unclear. Xn00bit (talk) 16:12, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Staple policy

User:GenoV84 Show me where the RC say "Islamic death penalty", point me into direction with a quote and page number and until you do that here, until you prove that is the fact, you should accept removal of unreferenced terminology - all this is per our staple policies: WP:RS, WP:OR, and WP:Burden ౪ Santa ౪^99° 20:59, 13 October 2022 (UTC) Not to mention it is excessive phrasing within the context of those two sentences.--౪ Santa ౪^99° 21:08, 13 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The cited academic references extensively refer to executions of Christians by muslims under the death penalty as per islamic jurisprudence; please check the cited sources and read for yourself. GenoV84 (talk) 21:12, 13 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I asked you to point on usage of this terminology and to provide a source page and quotation. You are avoiding to offer evidence with unnecessary explanations of your original research, and now you are edit waring again. ౪ Santa ౪^99° 21:16, 13 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Nobody spoke of verbatim quotes, I spoke of content; here's the evidence that you asked for.^[1]^[2]^[3]^[4]^[5]^[6] GenoV84 (talk) 21:20, 13 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Santasa99: You accuse me of edit warring after I provided all the evidence that you wanted to see while refusing to check the cited sources? Astonishing, but not surprising. GenoV84 (talk) 21:24, 13 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I asked you to show me specific quotation of "Islamic death penalty" and a specific page where I can validate usage of such explicit (almost racialized) terminology. You are just burying me with references in avoidance to give me what I want. ౪ Santa ౪^99° 21:37, 13 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I am referring to content, not verbatim quotes. The cited academic sources throughout the article extensively state that Christians during the Middle Ages were continuously persecuted by muslims and many were executed under their religious principles of jurisprudence regarding the death penalty for Non-muslims as per Islam, i.e. the Islamic death penalty (which is still a thing even today in the muslim world, you know....).

What's the point of asking for evidence if you don't even dare to read the cited academic sources, which constitute the evidence that you are so desperately looking for? GenoV84 (talk) 21:48, 13 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This is nothing but more justification of WP:OR, and more avoidance to respond to clear and concrete request for quotation of terminology included in article. You should revert yourself, or provide evidence as asked. That would end any doubts and stop any further unnecessary discussion. ౪ Santa ౪^99° 01:08, 14 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I replied on WP:AN. This discussion won't go anywhere unless you stop with your WP:STALKING and repeated personal attacks. GenoV84 (talk) 09:06, 14 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Runciman, Steven (1987) [1951]. "The Reign of Antichrist". A History of the Crusades, Volume 1: The First Crusade and the Foundation of the Kingdom of Jerusalem. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. pp. 20–37. ISBN 978-0-521-34770-9.
^ Sahner, Christian C. (2020) [2018]. "Introduction: Christian Martyrs under Islam". Christian Martyrs under Islam: Religious Violence and the Making of the Muslim World. Princeton, New Jersey and Woodstock, Oxfordshire: Princeton University Press. pp. 1–28. ISBN 978-0-691-17910-0. LCCN 2017956010.
^ Fierro, Maribel (January 2008). "Decapitation of Christians and Muslims in the Medieval Iberian Peninsula: Narratives, Images, Contemporary Perceptions". Comparative Literature Studies. 45 (2: Al-Andalus and Its Legacies). Philadelphia, Pennsylvania: Penn State University Press: 137–164. doi:10.2307/complitstudies.45.2.0137. ISSN 1528-4212. JSTOR 25659647. S2CID 161217907.
^ Trombley, Frank R. (Winter 1996). "The Martyrs of Córdoba: Community and Family Conflict in an Age of Mass Conversion (review)". Journal of Early Christian Studies. 4 (4). Baltimore, Maryland: Johns Hopkins University Press: 581–582. doi:10.1353/earl.1996.0079. ISSN 1086-3184. S2CID 170001371.
^ Khoury, Adel Theodoro. 1994. Christen unterm Halbmond. Religiöse Minderheiten unter der Herrschaft des Islams. Freiburg: Herder, p. 101–192; quoted in Schirrmacher, Christine (2020). "Leaving Islam". In Enstedt, Daniel; Larsson, Göran; Mantsinen, Teemu T. (eds.). Handbook of Leaving Religion (PDF). Brill. p. 82. Retrieved 6 January 2021.
^ Graves, Coburn V. (November 1964). "The Martyrs of Cordoba, 850–859. A Study of the Sources (review)". The Hispanic American Historical Review. 44 (4). Durham, North Carolina: Duke University Press on behalf of the Conference on Latin American History: 644. doi:10.1215/00182168-44.4.644. ISSN 1527-1900. S2CID 227325750.

OR tags

Several sections have been tagged as OR; there doesn't seem to be an explanation for why. For the Quran section, is it because scriptural verses are being directly referenced (with the implication that whether the verses are related to apostasy constitutes original analysis)? The sections are pretty thread-bare otherwise; I haven't read the sources given but they seem lean. seefooddiet (talk) 19:43, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[Runciman_1987-1] Runciman, Steven (1987) [1951]. "The Reign of Antichrist". A History of the Crusades, Volume 1: The First Crusade and the Foundation of the Kingdom of Jerusalem. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. pp. 20–37. ISBN 978-0-521-34770-9.

[Sahner_2020-2] Sahner, Christian C. (2020) [2018]. "Introduction: Christian Martyrs under Islam". Christian Martyrs under Islam: Religious Violence and the Making of the Muslim World. Princeton, New Jersey and Woodstock, Oxfordshire: Princeton University Press. pp. 1–28. ISBN 978-0-691-17910-0. LCCN 2017956010.

[Fierro_2008-3] Fierro, Maribel (January 2008). "Decapitation of Christians and Muslims in the Medieval Iberian Peninsula: Narratives, Images, Contemporary Perceptions". Comparative Literature Studies. 45 (2: Al-Andalus and Its Legacies). Philadelphia, Pennsylvania: Penn State University Press: 137–164. doi:10.2307/complitstudies.45.2.0137. ISSN 1528-4212. JSTOR 25659647. S2CID 161217907.

[Trombley_1996-4] Trombley, Frank R. (Winter 1996). "The Martyrs of Córdoba: Community and Family Conflict in an Age of Mass Conversion (review)". Journal of Early Christian Studies. 4 (4). Baltimore, Maryland: Johns Hopkins University Press: 581–582. doi:10.1353/earl.1996.0079. ISSN 1086-3184. S2CID 170001371.

[Khoury_1994:_101–192-5] Khoury, Adel Theodoro. 1994. Christen unterm Halbmond. Religiöse Minderheiten unter der Herrschaft des Islams. Freiburg: Herder, p. 101–192; quoted in Schirrmacher, Christine (2020). "Leaving Islam". In Enstedt, Daniel; Larsson, Göran; Mantsinen, Teemu T. (eds.). Handbook of Leaving Religion (PDF). Brill. p. 82. Retrieved 6 January 2021.

[Graves_1964-6] Graves, Coburn V. (November 1964). "The Martyrs of Cordoba, 850–859. A Study of the Sources (review)". The Hispanic American Historical Review. 44 (4). Durham, North Carolina: Duke University Press on behalf of the Conference on Latin American History: 644. doi:10.1215/00182168-44.4.644. ISSN 1527-1900. S2CID 227325750.

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