Talk:Mutiny on the Bounty

Source credibility (multiple)

Hough is used as a source several times, is it really a good idea? Reviews of this book state it is "fiction" with no footnotes and apparently end with the conclusion that "Captain Bligh and Spencer Christian were really gay lovers". And I just saw the 1984 movie, how can anyone argue it being "homoerotic" like Dening is quoted to have said here? Some source criticism wouldn't hurt.

Who's Spencer Christian? —  Cliftonian (talk)  19:50, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for taking an interest in this article. The credibility of the sources used was confirmed in the article's recent featured article process. I have not seen any reviews of Hough's book which describe it as "fiction", and any that do are mistaken. Are you confusing it with another book, perhaps Nordhoff and Hall? Hough's book may not contain footnotes, but it includes a section summarising the sources employed, which are all of impeccable historical quality. It is a serious book, and generally regarded as such by those with knowledge of the subject. The supposition that it ends with the conclusion described above is simply false. As to "I just saw the movie..." etc, whatever your personal analysis of the film may be, Dening refers specifically to the depiction of Bligh in the film as "a man bedevilled by his vaguely homosexual jealousies", which is I think adequately covered by the text as it stands. I am removing the tag. If you would like to suggest an alternative wording, please do so, but it must be based on what is the published reliable sources. Brianboulton (talk) 17:10, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

(PS: please sign your posts, to make discussions less impersonal. Brianboulton (talk) 17:34, 5 August 2015 (UTC))

Yes Crazytingz (talk) 13:30, 28 April 2016 (UTC)

Article move and re-name

Thank you Dingsuntil, but shouldn't the new title be 'Mutiny on (not 'of') HMS Bounty"? The ship didn't mutiny. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 04:59, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

@Roger 8 Roger: Change it if you like; I just wanted it more distinguished from "Mutiny on the Bounty," and I don't think there's any danger of confusion. Dingsuntil (talk) 08:16, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

I have had a second look and I think the rename should be reverted for several reasons: it is well known as Mutiny on the Bounty, not on HMS Bounty: there is no confusion with films and books (those articles are clearly titled); the ship was not HMS but HM sloop Bounty: Mutiny on HMS Bounty sounds odd: it was well established as a feature article with its original title; it seems no consensus for the change was established. Sorry to sound pedantic, but it was better as it was. I'll revert the changes now. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 09:41, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

Would it not be sensible to merge this article into HMS Bounty itself? The introduction of this article is longer than the Bounty article and repeat all information. 2A02:1811:9D15:D500:D25:D226:5618:206F (talk) 13:05, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

Circumnavigation route

@SchroCat: twice reverted a tag I added to the 'Bligh' section. The text states that the Admirally originally ordered the route to be a westward circumnavigation, but gives no indication of why that would be favoured over either Cape Horn twice, or Cape of Good Hope twice. I tagged it because this is important to understand the later changes to the route and schedule. I don't know the answer myself, so couldn't just fix it. I would welcome any explanation that could be added to the article. Modest Genius ^talk 15:09, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for finally coming to the talk page to discuss the matter, rather than just leaving a rather vague and spurious tag on the page. I have re-removed it, and replaced the text that had been edited too: the changes were not as good as the original text, and changing from one form of dash to another when it's not necessary isn't great. I'm in the middle of something at the moment, and will revert shortly on the substantive point above, but it would be better if the tag could be left out of the article, given the article is on the front page. - SchroCat (talk) 15:13, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

Information now added. - SchroCat (talk) 16:06, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

'Finally'? I posted this a whole 14 minutes after you asked for more details than the explanation I had already added in the tag itself. Also, being linked from the Main Page is not a reason to remove tags. Thanks for adding a brief explanation, though it's now unclear which 'under-explored passage' it's referring to. Perhaps the Strait of Magellan, or Beagle Channel? Modest Genius ^talk 12:31, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

Yes, "finally": I asked you at least an hour before you came here, during which time you re-added the tag twice (and I asked you for a second time to use the talk page). And yes, it is a reason not to re-add the tag. Linked articles are supposed to be tag free, and if you had come straight here when I first asked, we could have had the discussion and the explanation provided at that time, without the fuss and bother in the middle. As to what is in the article, please feel free to refer to the source (available to preview on Google Books, and to "look inside" on Amazon) to see if you can glean any more clarity from the source than is present. As it is, the article is as clear as it can be given what the source says. - SchroCat (talk) 12:44, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

Trial transcripts of Mutiny

Thomas Hayward testified: "Fletcher Christian relieved the Watch as usual; at about 5 o’clock, after giving Orders to prepare for Washing Decks, he ordered me to look out, as being Master's Mate of his Watch, while he went down to lash his Hammock up j a few Minutes elapsed, and I was abaft looking at a Shark that was astern of the Ship, when to my unutterable Surprise I saw Fletcher Christian, Charles Churchill, Thomas Burkitt, one of the Prisoners, John Sumner, Matthew Quintal, William McKoy, Isaac Martin, Henry Hilbrandt and Alexander Smith coming aft, Armed with Musquets and Bayonets. On my going forward to prevent their Proceedings I asked Fletcher Christian the Cause of such an Act j he told me to hold my Tongue instantly, and left Isaac Martin as a Centinel on Deck, and proceeded with the rest of his Party below to Lieutenant Bligh's Cabin, some few of the number remaining in the After Hatchway with their Head above the Deck. At the time that this happened the People on Deck were Mr. John Hallett, myself, Robert Lamb, Butcher, Thomas Ellison (the Prisoner) at the Helm j and John Mills at the Conn. When Christian had got below I asked Mills if he knew any thing of the Matter j he pleaded total Ignorance, and Thomas Ellison quitted the Helm and armed himself with a Bayonet. The Ship's Decks now began to be thronged with Men, out of which Edward Young, a Midshipman, John Millward, William Muspratt, John Williams, Richard Skinner and William Brown were Armed with Musquets and Bayonets---Peter Heywood, one of the Prisoners, George Stewart and James Morrison, one of the Prisoners, unarmed on the Booms. Fletcher Christian and his Gang before mentioned had not been down long before I heard the Cry of Murder from Lieutenant Bligh, and on the other Hand heard Churchill call for a Rope-it was now that I found that John Mills was one of the Mutineers' Party, for, contrary to all Orders and entreaties, he cut the Deep sea Line, and carried a piece of it to their Assistance. Soon after, I saw Lieutenant Bligh brought up upon the Quarter Deck with his hands bound behind him; he was surrounded by most of those who came last on Deck...." Bligh's account:"Just before sun-rising, Mr. Christian, with the master at arms, gunner's mate, and Thomas Burket, seaman, came into my cabin while I was asleep, and seizing me, tied my hands with a cord behind my back, and threatened me with instant death, if I spoke or made the least noise: I, however, called so loud as to alarm everyone; but they had already secured the officers who were not of their party, by placing centinels at their doors. There were three men at my cabin door, besides the four within; Christian had only a cutlass in his hand, the others had muskets and bayonets. I was hauled out of bed, and forced on deck in my shirt, suffering great pain from the tightness with which they had tied my hands. I demanded the reason of such violence, but received no other answer than threats of instant death, if I did not hold my tongue. Mr. Elphinston, the master's mate, was kept in his birth; Mr. Nelson, botanist, Mr. Peckover, gunner, Mr. Ledward, surgeon, and the master, were confined to their cabins; and also the clerk, Mr. Samuel, but he soon obtained leave to come on deck. The fore hatchway was guarded by centinels; the boatswain and carpenter were, however, allowed to come on deck, where they saw me standing abaft the mizen-mast, with my hands tied behind my back, under a guard, with Christian at their head.

The boatswain was now ordered to hoist the launch out, with a threat, if he did not do it instantly, to take care of himself.

The boat being out, Mr. Hayward and Mr. Hallet, midshipmen, and Mr. Samuel, were ordered into it; upon which I demanded the cause of such an order, and endeavoured to persuade some one to a sense of duty; but it was to no effect: "Hold your tongue, Sir, or you are dead this instant," was constantly repeated to me." Feyer testimony: "...At twelve O'Clock we had fine Weather and every thing quiet on board. I was relieved by Mr. Peckover, the Gunner; every thing remained quiet until he was relieved at four O'Clock by Mr. Fletcher Christian. At the Dawn of Day I was much alarmed, whether from the Noise Mr. Bligh said he made or by the People coming into my Cabin I cannot tell, but when I attempted to jump up John Sumner and Matthew Quintal laid their Hands upon my Breast and desired me to lay down, saying, " You are a Prisoner, Sir." I attempted to expostulate with them; they told me to hold my Tongue or you are a dead Man, but if you remain quiet there is no Person on board that will hurt a hair of your head. I then, by raising myself on the locker, which place I always slept on for coolness, saw on the ladder going upon Deck -Mr. Bligh in his Shirt, with his Hands tied behind him, and Christian holding him by the cord. The Master at Arms, Charles Churchill, then came to my Cabin and took a Brace of Pistols and a Hanger, saying, " I will take care of these, Mr. Fryer." The Pistols would have been of no Service to me as I had no Ammunition; the time we armed to confine the Chiefs at Anamocha on account of a Grapnel being stolen from the large Cutter when on shore, John Mills the Gunner's Mate had taken the Cartridge Box out of my Cabin, which had the Pistol Balls in, and filled it with Musquet Cartridges for one of the People who wanted a Cartridge Box and Mr. Bligh ordered him to load or part load the Pistols with Powder only, to be in readiness to fire off the four Pounders in case of necessity. When I saw Mr. Bligh on the ladder I asked what they were going to do with their Captain. "Damn his Eyes," Sumner said, "put him into the Boat, and let the Bugger see if he can live upon three fourths of a Pound of Yams a day." "Into the Boat?" I said, "for Godsake for what?" "0 Sir, hold your tongue," they replied (Sumner and Quintal). "Mr. Christian is Captain of the Ship and recollect that Mr. Bligh has brought all this upon himself." I said again, "Consider, my Lads, what you are about." John Sumner replied, "0 Sir, we know very well what we are about." "I am afraid not," I said again, "or you would not persist in your Intentions; let me persuade you to lay down your Arms and I will insure that nothing shall hurt you, for what you have done." "0 No, Sir," they replied, "hold your tongue, it is too late now." I then said, "What Boat are they going to put Captain Bligh into?" They said, " The small Cutter." "Good God! the small Cutter's bottom is almost out, being very much eaten with the Worms." "Damn his Eyes," Sumner and Quintal said, "the Boat is too good for him." I said, "I hope they are not going to send Captain Bligh adrift by himself." They answered "No, his Clerk, Mr. Samuel, Messrs. Hayward and Hallett, are going with him." I requested they would let me go on Deck to speak to Captain Bligh, before he went into the Boat; they answered I could not. At last I prevailed on them to call upon Deck to Christian to give me permission to go up, which after some hesitation he granted. When I came upon Deck Mr. Bligh was standing by the Mizen Mast with his Hands tied behind him and Christian holding the Cord with one Hand and a Bayonet in the other. I said, "Mr. Christian, consider what you are about." "Hold your tongue Sir," he said, "I have been in Hell for Weeks past-Captain Bligh has brought all this on himself." I told him that Mr. Bligh and his not agreeing was no reason for his taking the ship. "Hold your tongue, Sir," he said. I said, "Mr. Christian, you and I have been on friendly terms during the Voyage, therefore give me leave to speak; let Mr. Bligh go down to his Cabin and I make no doubt but that we shall all be friends again in a very short time." He then repeated, "Hold your tongue, Sir, it is too late," and threatening me if I said any more; however, I said, "Mr. Christian, if you will not grant what I first asked you, do pray give Captain Bligh a better Boat than the small Cutter, whose Bottom is almost out, and let him have a chance to get on shore." He said, "No, that Boat. is good enough." I whispered to Captain Bligh to keep his Spirits up, that if I staid on board I might be enabled Soon to follow him. Mr. Bligh said, "By all means stay, Mr. Fryer." This he spoke so loud that Christian could not avoid hearing him, but took no notice. Captain Bligh said one of the Men under Arms (Isaac Martin) was a Friend, aft by the Hencoops, and said to me several times, "Knock Christian down." All this Christian must hear, but still took no notice. Captain Bligh must certainly have been much confused at this time, otherwise he never would have said "knock Christian down," whatever he thought at that time. There were two Men behind me, Sumner and Quintal, with Musquets and Bayonets fixed. However I made an effort to get past Christian, to speak to Martin, who Captain Bligh said was a friend, when Christian put his Bayonet to my breast, saying, "Sir if you advance an Inch further, I will run you through," and ordered the People to take me down to my Cabin; his orders were readily obeyed by Sumner and Quintal. At the Hatchway I saw James Morrison, the Boatswain's Mate; he was at that time getting a Tackle to hook upon the Launch's stern, apparently, so I said to him, "Morrison, I hope you have no Hand in this Business? " He replied, "No Sir, I do not know a Word about it," or Words to that effect. "If that's the case," I said in a low Voice, " be on your Guard; there may be an opportunity of recovering ourselves." His answer was" Go down to your Cabin, Sir, it is too late." I was then confined to my Cabin and a third Centinel put on, John Millward, who I thought seemed friendly. I winked at him and made a motion for him to knock the Man down that was next to him, which was John Sumner. Millward immediately cocked his Piece and dropt it pointed towards me, saying at the same time, " Mr. Fryer be quiet, no one will hurt you." He held his Piece sometime in that position. I said, "Millward, your Piece is cocked, you had better uncock it, as you may shoot some Person." He then held his Piece up and said, " There is no one who wishes to shoot you." Sumner said, "No, that was our Agreement not to commit Murder." Mr. Samuel, the Clerk, was all this time getting things out of Captain Bligh's Cabin. Messrs. Peckover, the Gunner, and Nelson, the Botanist, were confined down in the Cockpit, to which Place I persuaded the Centinels to let me go. When I got there Mr. Nelson was with Mr. Peckover in his Cabin. Mr. Nelson said; "Mr. Fryer, what have we brought on ourselves? " Mr. Peckover, the Gunner, said, "What is best to be done, Mr. Fryer?" I told him that I had spoke to Captain Bligh desiring him to keep his Spirits up, that if I staid on board the Ship I hoped soon to follow him, and Mr. Bligh said, "By all means stay, Mr. Fryer." I said to them if we were ordered into the Boat-say that you will stay on board, and I flatter myself that we shall recover the Ship in a short time. Mr. Peck over said, "If we stay we shall be all deemed Pirates." I told them not-that I would answer for them and everyone that would join with me. At the time we were talking Henry Hilbrant, the Cooper, was in the Breadroom getting some Bread to put into the Boat for Captain Bligh; I suppose he must have heard our Conversation and had gone on Deck and told Christian, as I was immediately ordered up to my Cabin, when I heard from the Centinels that Christian had consented to give Captain Bligh the Launch, but not for his sake but the safety of those who were going with him. I then asked if they knew who was going into the Boat with Captain Bligh; they said no, but believed a great many. I then heard Christian say, "Give every Man a dram out of Captain Bligh's Case, that is under Arms." John Smith, the Captain's Servant, was called for and the dram served out; this Circumstance gave me great hopes that if I should stay on board, that they would get drunk and in a short time might take the Ship. Sometime after, Messrs. Peckover and Nelson were ordered upon Deck, when Christian said to me, "Mr. Fryer, go into the Boat." I said, "I will stay with you, if you will give me leave." "No, Sir," he replied, "go directly into the Boat." Captain Bligh was at that time on the Gangway without the rail and his Hands at Liberty. He said, " Mr. Fryer, stay in the Ship." "No, by God, Sir," Christian said, "go into the Boat or I will run you through," pointing his Bayonet at my Breast. I then went outside the rail to Mr. Bligh, and asked Christian to let Mr. Tinkler, my Brother in Law, go with me. Churchill said" No "-however, after much solicitations, Christian permitted him to go with me; I then requested my trunk, which was granted, but Christian gave orders that nothing else should be taken out of my Cabin. I requested my Log Book and Quadrant, which was denied me as Mr. Bligh had a Quadrant. I cannot say who was in the Boat first, Mr. Bligh or myself; however, we were both on the Gangway together, All this time there was very bad Language made use of by the People to Captain Bligh. We all begged that they would give us two or three Musquets into the Boat; Churchill would not consent to it-said Mr. Bligh was very well acquainted with the People where he was going." Peckover testified " I was awaked out of my Sleep by a confused Noise; directly after, I thought I heard the fixing of Bayonets. I jumped out, and put my Trowsers on; at the Door I met Mr. Nelson the Botanist, who told me that the Ship was taken from us; my Answer was we were a long way from Land. When I came off the Deck Mr. Nelson answered, " It is by our own People and Mr. Christian at their head" -or" has got the command," I don't know which-" but we know whose fault it is," or, "we know who is to blame "-I do not know which of those Expressions it was; I made Answer, " Let us go forward and see what is to be done." Going to the Hatch - way, trying to get up, we were stopped by John Sumner and Matthew Quintal with fixed Bayonets down the Hatchway, who said, "Mr. Peckover, you must come up, we have Mutinied and taken the Ship, and Mr. Christian has got the Command"; those were the Words to the best of my Knowledge. In a short time after Mr. Samuel came up, and told us that he was going away in the small Cutter with Captain Bligh, Mr. Hayward, Mr. Hallet and himself, and advised with me what he should take with him. I told him that if I was in his Place, I should take but very few things, upon which he put a few Shirts and Stockings in a Pillow Case; some short time after, Mr. Fryer came down to my Cabbin he asked me what I meant to do for the best. [I replied] that I wished to get Home if I possibly could, for by staying behind we should be reckoned as Pirates, if we should ever be taken. He told me something about Captain Bligh, but what I can't say, and that he himself would be answerable for that, and he was ordered upon Deck just at this time. I was a long while down before I was ordered up, and when I came upon Deck I saw Captain Bligh, and Mr. Christian standing alongside of him with a naked Bayonet. I saw Burkitt in Arms on the Quarter Deck-John Mills, I can't say whether he was in Arms or not, but he had got a Cartouch Box bound round him. I asked Mr. Christian to [let me] go down forward to get some things out of my Chest; his Answer was, " Have you got no things down aft?" I told him, "No, only a few," and I stepped to the Gangway and went over the side; there was a Centry at the Gangway, but who, I cannot say. I saw Muspratt forward upon the Forecastle, he seemed to me as if he was about something in the Wood, he was not under Arms or in the Act of Splitting Wood. I saw three or four more People there, whose Names I do not recollect, nor do I know whether they were under Arms or not. Then I went down into the Boat; the Centry saw me down; then I believe there was about ten or twelve in the Boat. The Cutter was lying alongs' with Michael Byrn in her. In about four or five Minutes after this, the remainder with Mr. Bligh came into the Boat; a short time after they veered her astern with the Hauser, whilst we were lying under the Stern, Thomas Burkitt came and asked me if I wanted anything. I told him I had only what I stood in, a Shirt, and a pair of Trowsers; he told me if I would send my Keys up, he would go and get me some Cloaths. I told him that I had lost them, or dropped them overboard. He made me some Answer, which I do not remember, but told me that he would go and get me some; he was gone a short time, about 8 or 10 Minutes, and returned with a Handkerchief and different Cloaths, and threw them into the Boat; one more whom I don't know went down into my Cabbin and got me some more Cloaths. Coleman called to me over the Stern and beg'd that I would call upon a friend at Greenwich and acquaint him of the matter; then he said that he wished to come in the Boat. Mr. Cole at different times asked Captain Bligh to cast the Boat off, or cast her loose, that he was rather dubious of their firing into us. I cannot say the Answer that Captain Bligh made him, but the Boat was cast adrift, but by whom I can't tell." Cole's testimony: "The first of my knowing it was-one Quintal, a Seaman, called to the Carpenter (but whether Quintal was in the Cabin with the Carpenter or in the Cockpit I do not know) and said that they had mutinied and taken the Ship, and Mr. Christian had the Command; the Captain was then a Prisoner on the Quarter Deck. I was asleep and it awaked me, and I jumped out of my Cabin and says to the Carpenter, " For God's sake, I hope you know nothing of this." He told me not. There was at the same time the Sail maker, Lawrence Lebogue, lying by my Cabin in the Cockpit. I asked him what he meant to do, or what he thought of it (this passed while I was putting my Cloaths on); he told me he did not know what to do, he would do as I did. I went up the Hatchway directly and looking aft I saw Matthew Thompson, Centinel on the Main Hatchway. Mr. Heywood was then leaning over his own Hammock in the larboard Birth and Mr. Young on the Starboard Side-to the best of my knowledge Mr. Elphinstone was looking over the side of the Birth which [was boarded up; [then] upon Deck were I believe five Men under Arms about the Fore Hatchway and on the Deck Charles Churchill, William Brown, Alexander Smith, William McKoy, and John Williams. I looked aft and saw the Captain with his Hands tied behind him; there were Centinels over him John Mills, Isaac Martin, Thomas Ellison, one of the Prisoners; and Thomas Burkitt, another of the Prisoners, was on the Quarter Deck, seeing the Captain confined aft. I jumped down the Fore Hatchway at once and I awaked Morrison, Millward, and M'Intosh, three of the Prisoners who all lay in the same Tier. I informed them of what had happened in the Ship, thinking at that time to form a Party. I asked them if they knew anything of it and they told me not. Millward, the Prisoner, said he was very sorry for it, he said he had a hand in the foolish Piece of Business before, and that he was afraid they would make him have a hand in that also. Then Churchill came forward and called out to Millward, desired him to come upon Deck immediately to take a Musquet, or that he had a Musquet for him, I do not remember the particular Words j with that they all went up as they put their Cloaths on-and I did not see either one of the rest of them have a Musquet at that time. I went upon Deck and went aft, and asked Mr. Christian what he meant to do-he then ordered me to hoist the Boat out and shook the Bayonet, threatening me and damning me if I did not take Care. I asked him Liberty to go and speak to Mr. Fryer and he granted it. I went down below and asked him what to do, or what he thought to do, or Words to that Purport. He spoke in a low Voice to me," Stay." One of the Centinels (Sumner, I believe it was) said that he (meaning Mr. Fryer) had a wife and Family, but that would be all forgot in a few Months. Then Mr. Fryer came upon Deck and asked Mr. Christian what he was about (the particular Words I do not recollect) j he then told him that if he did not approve of the Captain's behaviour to put him under an Arrest and proceed on the Voyage. He told him that if that was all he had to say to go down to his Cabin again, for he had been in Hell for Weeks and weeks past. Then they were intending to send the Captain and they mentioned Mr. Hayward, Mr. Hallett, and Mr. Samuel was to go with them. They had got the Bread and every thing was upon deck ready to hand into the Boat-the small Boat. Her Bottom was stove and they made Interest with Mr. Christian for the other Cutter, she was then a Shell, her thwarts all unshipped. Coleman, Norman, and McIntosh, three of the Prisoners, with the Assistance of the Carpenter, fixed all the thwarts and got the Boat ready-she was then got out-Christian was still threatening me if I carried anything away or sprang any Yard. I then found the Captain was going to be sent from the Ship. I went Aft with the Carpenter and asked him for the Long Boat. Mr. Hallett and Mr. Hayward were upon Deck at this time. I asked Christian for the Boat three or four times before he made any Answer. Captain Bligh said, "For God's sake, Mr. Cole, do all that lays in your Power." Then the Carpenter said, "I have done nothing that I am ashamed or afraid of, I want to see my Native Country." He then granted the Launch. Then the Carpenters and Armourer, with Mr. Purcell, were employed in fitting her. While the Boat was going over the side I saw Byrn, one of the Prisoners, in the Cutter alongside, but how he came into her I do not know; whether he was hoisted out in her or ordered into her or how he came into her I do not know. Then we were employed getting the Launch over the side. Mr. Christian gave Orders for a Bottle of rum or some other Liquor to be brought upon Deck and ordered a Dram to be given to every Man under Arms-the Liquor was brought forward by John Smith, the Servant; some of them told him to give me a Dram. I told them I would not drink it raw, and then got some Water in a Pot. Mr. Christian was continually calling out, "Take care you carry nothing away "-threatening and shaking the bayonet. I saw Mr. Peter Heywood, one of the Prisoners, who was standing there lending a hand to get the Fore Stay fall along, and when the Boat was hooked on he spoke something to me, but what it was I do not know, for Christian was threatening me at the time, and Mr. Heywood then went below and I do not remember seeing him afterwards, whilst we were in the Ship; then we got the Boat out and were getting the things into the Boat; Norman, McIntosh, Coleman, and Morrison and several others who went in the Boat were assisting. They got the Masts, Oars, Sails, Twine, Lines, Rope, Canvas and other necessaries. There was Churchill and Quintal walking about saying, "Damn them, they have enough." At this time, looking about, I saw William Muspratt, one of the Prisoners; with a Musquet in his Hand; I don't recollect seeing him before. I heard Churchill call out to keep somebody below, but who it was I do not know. Churchill and Quintal were forcing the people into the Boat; Coleman, one of the Prisoners, had a bag, which appeared to me to contain Iron, and he was handing it into the Boat, or it was in the Boat-Christian ordered him to be stopped, likewise the two Carpenter's Mates, Norman and McIntosh. Most of the People were then in the Boat; they were trying to get the Carpenter's Tool Chest into the Boat, when they wanted to go. Matthew Quintal said, "Damn them, if we let them have those things they will build a Vessel in a Month." The Chest was then handed into the Boat, but some of the tools were taken out of it. The Carpenter had got his Cloaths Chest into the Boat; then they were forcing the People out of the Ship who were going and who were not on their Side-and I went into the Boat, and things laid in great Confusion in the Boat, and they were stowing them away. Then Mr. Peckover and the Botanist, Mr. Hayward and Mr. Hallett, were put into the Boat and then Captain Bligh was brought to the Side, and ordered into the Boat, as soon as they were in Almost; then we veered the Boat astern. Coleman and Norman were standing at the Gangway crying all this Time, after they were ordered not to go into the Boat, and McIntosh was standing there also and would have wished to come into the Boat-and Byrn was in the Cutter all the time crying. We dropt the Launch astern and they handed some Pieces of Pork and two or three cocoanut Shells for holding Water and a couple of Calabashes were handed in-Burkitt went and got some Cloaths for the Gunner and brought it and hove it into the Boat to him. One of the People (Sumner) demanded my Call and said it would be of no use to me where I was going. I asked him at the same time in the Indian tongue if he would give me anything for it; I sent it up to him, but got nothing for it. Norton, one of the Quarter Masters, asked for a Jacket and Skinner said, "You Bugger, if I 'had my Will I would blow your Brains out." I then told Captain Bligh that we had best cast off; he asked my reason; I told him that I thought they would fire upon us; he then called and wished to speak to Mr. Christian, but he did not come aft, to my knowledge. Coleman called out and beg'd they would take notice that he had no Hand at all in it; if ever any body should live to get to England he beg'd them to remember him to a Mr. Green in Greenwich. Then we cast the Boat off and pulled in towards Tofoa-I suppose our Boat could not be more than seven or eight Inches out of the water a Midships at that time. The last I saw was seeing Thomas Ellison loosing the Main-top Gallant Sail. {to a question of how many were under arms:"Nine upon Deck at first; there were two or three down the Main Hatchway as Centinels-Charles Churchill, William Brown, Alexander Smith, John Williams, William McKoy, Isaac Martin, John Mills, Thomas Burkitt, one of the Prisoners; those were upon Deck-Matthew Thompson was in the Main Hatchway. Matthew Quintal and John Sumner were over the Master's Cabin, and in the after Cockpit together; the Cooper, Henry Hilbrant, who is dead, was also under Arms on Deck-and Skinner was under Arms on Deck but I did not see him at first. William Muspratt was with a Musquet upon Deck-it was at the latter Part of the time that I saw him. Millward was aft under Arms agreeable to his Orders. Churchill called out to him saying, " Damn you, come up, here is a Musquet ready for you." Heywood testimony:"atthew Thompson was the first that claimed my attention upon waking. He was sitting as a Centinel over the Arm Chest and my Birth, and informed me that the Captain was a Prisoner and Christian had taken Command of the Ship. I intreated for permission to go upon Deck and soon after the Boatswain and Carpenter had seen me in my Birth as they were going up the fore Hatchway I followed them as is stated in their Evidence. It is not in my power to describe my feelings upon seeing the Captain as I did, who, with his hands tied behind him, was standing on the Quarter deck a little abaft the Mizen Mast and Christian by his side-My faculties were benumbed and I did not recover the power of recollection until called to by somebody to take hold of the tackle fall and assist to get out the Launch, which I found was to be given to the Captain instead of the large Cutter already in the Water alongside the Ship. It were in vain to say what things I put into the boat, but many were handed in by me, and in doing this it was that my hand touched the Cutlass (for I will not attempt to deny what the Carpenter has deposed) tho' He should have known what the charge was and, in general, how it was to be supported. on my Conscience I am persuaded it was of momentary duration, and innocent as to intention. The former is evident, from its being unobserved by every Witness who saw me upon Deck-some of whom must have noticed it had it continued a single Minute and the latter is proved by the only Person who took Notice of the Circumstance and has also deposed that at the moment he beheld me I was apparently in a state of absolute stupor-the Poison therefore carries with it its antidote and it seems needless to make any further comment on the Subject. For no Man can be weak enough to suppose that if I had been Armed for the purpose of assisting in the Mutiny that I should have resigned a weapon in the Moment of triumph and when the Ship was so completely in the possession of the Party that (as more than one Witness has emphatically expressed it) all attempts at recovering her would have been impracticable."</ref>Heywood testimony</ref>Heywood questioning of Cole: "After I went below accompanied by Stewart, and while we were there, did you hear any Orders, given to Thompson the Centinel upon the Arm Chest, not to let them come up again, and by whom were such Orders given? A. I heard Churchill call out keep them below.</ref>Heywood testimony</ref>Purcell testified "0n the Morning of the Mutiny, the 28th of April, I think Matthew Quintal, Seaman, came down to my Cabin and awaked me, and said, " Mr. Purcell, you and Mr. Coleman 8 go on deck and do as you think proper, for we have Mutinied and taken the Ship, and Mr. Christian has the Command-the Captain is confined; all resistance will be in vain; if you attempt it you are a Dead Man." I then called Mr. Cole and went up the Hatchway and saw Thompson standing Centry armed in the Main Hatchway. Mr. Heywood, the Prisoner, and Mr. Stewart were in their Birth abreast of the Main Hatch way on the Larboard Side. John Williams came down the Fore hatchway Armed and accompanied us upon Deck-when I saw Captain Bligh with his Hands lashed behind him, standing on the Quarter Deck, and Mr. Christian standing over him with a naked Bayonet, and seeing the small Cutter alongside, I asked Alexr Smith what they meant to do. He answd. they meant to put the Captain, Mr. Hayward, Mr. Hallett, and Mr. Samuel into her to put the Captain on shore. I then told Mr. Christian I hoped he would not send anybody in that Boat, as her Bottom being eaten out by the Worms; she would not swim to the Land. There was an Altercation took place between Christian, Churchill and some others, concerning whether they should suffer another Boat to be hoisted out, which being determined, Mr. Christian ordered m_ to get the large Cutter ready. I hesitated obeying his orders, when he immediately said, " Do you get the Boat ready directly." Mr. Cole was then gone down below to turn those People, which were in their Hammocks upon Deck. I then called McIntosh and Norman, two of the Prisoners, and desired them to go down to my Storeroom and hand the Knees and Geer Bolts etc. of the Cutter up, to get her ready for hoisting out, which they immediately complied with; in the Interim we were clearing the Cutter of the Yams, and Cocoanuts, and other Lumber that were in her. When we got her ready she was ordered to be hoisted out by Mr. Christian; being hoisted out, Mr. Cole and I went aft to Mr. Christian to intercede for the Launch, when I asked Mr. Christian if he meant to turn us adrift in the Boat, to let us have the Launch and not make a Sacrifice of us, as I had done nothing to be either ashamed or afraid of, and would wish to see my native Country. He then ordered Mr. Cole to hoist her out, but to be careful he carried nothing away. The Boat being hoisted out, I went down to my Cabin in order to procure such Things as I thought would be useful. I desired McIntosh and Norman to fill a Bucket of Nails of different sizes, and hand a crosscut and whip Saw out of the Storeroom, which they did. I then got my Cloaths Chest, put a Looking Glass and several other Articles into it, got it upon Deck and into the Launch. We then got up several Boats' Sails, a lower Studding Sail, Twine, Remnants of Canvas, and several other Articles. I then went and asked Mr. Christian for my Tool Chest, Whip, and Cross cut saw, which after much Altercation he granted, after Churchill the Master at Arms had opposed it, and had taken such Things as he thought proper out of it. Prior to' this, I had been down to Mr. Fryer's Cabin, when he desired me to ask Christian to let him come on Deck; when he came on Deck, he and Captain Bligh had some Discourse, but I was not near enough to hear it. Alexr. Smith, one of the Mutineers who was Armed, desired me not to come aft. Mr. Fryer then addressed Churchill and three or four others that were upon the Quarter Deck at the time Armed who' were Alexander Smith, Isaac Martin, John Mills, Thomas Ellison the Prisoner, Thomas Burkitt the Prisoner, desiring them in the Name of God to lay down their Arms, what they were about, and if the Captain had done anything to confine him-when Churchill replied, "No, Damn you, you ought to have done that Months ago," and used a great deal of other abusive Language to' the Captain. Mr. Fryer was then ordered down to his Cabin. The Captain attempting to speak, Mr. Christian replied, "Hold your Tongue and I'll not hurt you; it is too' late to consider now, I have been in Hell for weeks past with you." I then went forward to' get what Necessaries were handed upon Deck into the Boat. I went then into the Boat myself to' stow them, my Chest and several other Articles. Martin, one of the Mutineers, came into the Boat with a Bag; I asked him what he did there; he said he was going in the Boat; I replied if ever we get to England, I'll endeavor to hang you myself. Quintal and Churchill hearing of me, immediately presented their Pieces and desired him to come out of the Boat, which he did. The People were then collecting together to get into the Boat. Mr. Christian not being determined whether he would keep me, several of them apposed my going in the Boat, expressing that I should be the last to' leave the Ship, if they had their Wills, who should be suffered to go out of her, and that they might as well give us the Ship as to' suffer us to' take ]Tools, for we should have another Vessel in a Month. I then went into the Boat to receive a Cask of Water-some empty Beakers, the Captain's Case, and several other Articles that were handed into the Boat. We were then all of us ordered to get into the Boat, and veered astern, after using a great deal of abusive Language by the People in general to the Captain, threatening to blow his Brains out j after we were under the Stern they called for the Boatswain's Call, and hove us up some Pieces of Pork and Gourds of Water in Lieu, and they chucked Mr. Peckover some Cloaths, and several other Articles were thrown into the Boat. Mr. Cole asked the Captain if he should cast off the Boat, as some of the People were talking of firing into her; which the Captain gave orders for, when we quitted the Ship.." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.49.184.215 (talk) 20:11, 8 October 2021 (UTC)

References

Orphaned references in Mutiny on the Bounty

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Mutiny on the Bounty's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "ReferenceA":

• From Romanticism: Greenblatt et al., Norton Anthology of English Literature, eighth edition, "The Romantic Period – Volume D" (New York: W.W. Norton & Company Inc., 2006):
• From Kew Gardens: The History of the Royal Botanic Gardens Kew

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 14:14, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

Christian's death - notes on sources

Hi folks, I've tidied up the passage regarding Christian's death. It's important to note that John Adams is an unreliable source. Over the years he told various visitors to Pitcairn Island that Christian had died of natural causes, suicide, or murder. I've also added the account of a Tahitian woman, Teehuteatuaonoa; her interviews are more reliable and she provides a description of Christian's murder. I removed the claim that Christian's last words were "oh dear" - while entertaining, this is likely apocryphal, and there is no primary source to support it.

It can't really be stated with certainty that the massacre of the Englishmen happened in September 1793. That date comes from the Pitcairn Islands Register, which was compiled by later settlers to the island. Adams variously gave the date as anywhere between eleven months to two years after the burning of the Bounty, while Teehuteatuaonoa gave no date. I have left in "September 1793" for now, but it might be better to say, "sometime around 1793". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Darlenechu (talk • contribs) 20:16, 20 February 2022 (UTC)