Talk:Shroud of Turin

The face of Jesus is European

so now that the face of Jesus is reconstructed as European, Greek Like, what will pseudo scientists say about him being middle eastern 2600:1004:B0A7:A529:0:27:7522:E201 (talk) 22:47, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

That he was middle-eastern. By definition. Also, not the first flying clue what you are on about regarding a "reconstruction." Did they find remains and I missed it? Dumuzid (talk) 23:08, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

No, it would be unexpected if remains were found, per the Ascension . A Midjourney image"became an overnight social media sensation" in the wake of the wider media storm over Dr De Caro's study. Uncanny how much it looks like Newton. FeydHuxtable (talk) 20:31, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

But it is expected that he made a selfie using the Shroud before he got beamed up? This is so weird. --Hob Gadling (talk) 05:44, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

The following link (click here) claims that: "Jesus’ blood type is the ultra-rare AB+ that universally accepts all other blood types, but is not accepted by any other blood types (probably symbolic of the reality that none can truly come to Christ unless God the Father draws him). This blood type, while extremely rare, has a slightly higher incidence among people of Middle Eastern descent, confirming Jesus’ incarnation and Abrahamic descent."

The close-up of the face currently featured on the article is not reliable, because it is an 'enhanced' image. Unaltered close-ups on the link provided, however, could certainly pass for 1st Century Eastern Mediterranean. (click here)

It wasn't until several centuries after the beginnings of Christianity, that the Arab expansion changed the demographics of the Eastern Mediterranean. Before this, the region had been a cross-cultural hub of three major continents.

In the Acts of the Apostles, there were visiting Arabs among the first Christians at Pentecost (Acts 2:20 - "Both Jews and converts to Judaism, Cretans and Arabs — We hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!”). A prophecy about Jesus is explained to a visiting Nubian African, and a devout centurion hears the Gospel in Caesarea.

In the 1st Century, the Eastern Mediterranean was also multi-lingual, with Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek and Latin each being widely spoken (among numerous other languages). 2600:8801:CA00:DDD0:B056:93A8:3C89:6F47 (talk) 02:35, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

We are not interested in your blog. Take your blog elsewhere. tgeorgescu (talk) 03:46, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

I was referencing the photo provided on the blog.

For the blood type, blood samples were taken from the Shroud itself. 2600:8801:CA00:DDD0:30C7:EDE7:7CA7:7B03 (talk) 21:12, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

Listen, pal: the theology of bloodtype is a hoax. tgeorgescu (talk) 21:16, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

The theological take on it wasn't the point, it was that this rare blood type has a slightly higher incidence among Middle Easterners. 2600:8801:CA00:DDD0:30C7:EDE7:7CA7:7B03 (talk) 21:18, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

To correct my earlier comment, I'm not actually certain whether the current face image has been artificially-enhanced, after all.

An earlier topic on the subject mistakenly referred to this image as created by a religious artist through filtering, but the artist's concept referred to is actually another image entirely.

What I have noticed in comparing genuine photos, is that different degrees of light exposure seem to differently affect the dimensions of the facial features, making it seemingly impossible to know what the most accurate exposure is.

However, in all cases, the face looks (in my opinion) to be ancient Semitic. The proportions also match Byzantine depictions while they purportedly had the Shroud, using it as a model for coinage and religious art. 2600:8801:CA00:DDD0:30C7:EDE7:7CA7:7B03 (talk) 21:49, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

WP:CITE mainstream WP:SOURCES or be gone from this talk page. We are not interested in your musings. tgeorgescu (talk) 22:31, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

I'm not sure whether you realize this or not, but you come across as arrogant.

Many people were talking about this without citing a source for every statement they make. This is a talk page, not the article itself. And I was entirely on subject. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8801:CA00:DDD0:80E4:FA80:87BA:2BF0 (talk) 22:23, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

This talk page is for discussing improvements to the article. Citing you own blog does not improve the article in any way. You're just WP:SOAPBOXING your blog. tgeorgescu (talk) 23:07, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

I agree that I could have quoted a reliable source about the blood type test instead of referencing a blog.

This very subject, however, 'The face of Jesus is European', is entirely subjective and quotes no references at all. The person who started it is being entirely speculative, whereas a blood type test from the Shroud whose results parallels Middle Eastern incidence, is based on research and fact.

And so it would be more a matter of quoting the correct sources. Don't you agree? 2600:8801:CA00:DDD0:C40F:E514:353C:8183 (talk) 16:39, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

Yes... where are those sources? Theroadislong (talk) 17:17, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

Comparing the blood on both the Shroud and Sudarium (head cloth) -

"Blood on each of the fabrics match (AB +).. Blood from a human male that is most commonly found in the Middle East was identified on each."

The ethnic identification must be from an analysis of the blood's DNA.

The quote just cited is from the Digital Access to Scholarship at Harvard:Click here

Here's the rest of it:

An Analysis of the DNA and Hematological [blood study] Findings of the Shroud of Turin and the Sudarium of Oviedo

Citation

Dreschnack, Paul Alan. 2023. An Analysis of the DNA and Hematological Findings of the Shroud of Turin and the Sudarium of Oviedo. Master's thesis, Harvard University Division of Continuing Education.

Abstract

The Shroud of Turin and the Sudarium of Oviedo are the two most studied, examined, and analyzed historical artifacts in human existence. No doubt, they are also the most famous. Numerous coincidences exist that have captured the hearts and imaginations of audiences for centuries. Several high-profile scientific inquiries have been initiated in the past few decades. They have been studied extensively and comprehensively. But to what avail? They are examined independently, but there is a lack of collaboration of information and sharing of data, which could be very helpful to all the scientists involved.

It has been established that there is historical significance of these two fabrics, having originated in deaths that modern law would readily classify as a homicide. Uniquely killed by crucifixion, and then removed for burial in a time when this did not serve the Roman objective of visually offensive execution.

[The Blood Type]

Blood on each of the fabrics match (AB (+)), and the location of the blood stains matches as well [i.e., comparing the Shroud and Sudarium]. Blood from a human male that is most commonly found in the Middle East was identified on each. The stains superimpose on each other.

[Pollen and Tourist DNA]

DNA analysis performed at the University of Padua traced the path across Europe from Jerusalem to Turin by examining the surface pollen. On its journey, many people venerated it, and added their DNA to what was already present. Contamination is extensive.

[Conclusion]

More studies need to be done. We are examining the only remaining evidence of a violent crime. If there is evidence of a unique singular origin, the implications are more than theological. Even scientifically and medically speaking, it is more than a matter of faith. It already is a legend. 2600:8801:CA00:DDD0:C40F:E514:353C:8183 (talk) 22:42, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

According to Google, one of these ladies is Italian (European), and one is Palestinian (Asian). Can you tell at a glance which is which? [1] .. [2] Wdford (talk) 20:11, 25 October 2024 (UTC)