Talk:Szczerbiec

Szczerbiec has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
February 25, 2010	Good article nominee	Listed

Poland Mid‑importance

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Military history: European / Polish

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Pronunciation Help!!

For anyone who even knows what language this fiendishly-named object was named in, please tell the English-speaking world how in hell to pronounce it! @_@ -Kasreyn

Well as of January 13th, 2006 the IPA is there. A layman's english pronounciation is impossible since it contains 4 sounds that do not appear in english (or more precisely aren't distinguished in english). A *rough* approximation would be 'sh-ch-eh-rr-bee-ets'. I don't see how this could be included and have the article still look professional. -ATB ps: sz is a softer 'sh', cz a softer 'ch', the r is rolled like in Spanish, and the c is pronounced like the 'ts' in 'tsunami'.

Basically the word is pronounced as Cher-byets, however in the correct pronounciation ch- sound is being somewhat close to sh-. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 16:58, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Just to clear it up for those who can't read IPA, the best English approximation of the Polish pronunciation would be SHCHERR-byets; with shch as in fresh cheese, a rolled R, and ts as in pizza. It's two syllables, not three, with the stress on the first. An English word that sounds closest to Szczerbiec is probably sherbets. — Kpalion^(talk) 06:41, 27 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Szczerba

Szczerba is not only Polish word, but rather part of the generally Slavic lexicon. Similar words can be traced in the Ukrainian, Belorussian, and other languages. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 16:51, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

References needed

There are several places in the article that need references, I have marked them as such. Those need to be added for the article to maintain the GA class. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 11:05, 14 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Cites have been added; GAR is no longer necessary. Good job! --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 16:24, 7 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Latinized" spelling

[1] Can I change all of it? It's not used in other articles and it makes sense to standardize with what the relevant articles are actually titled.Volunteer Marek 23:57, 20 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree with the way some of the relevant articles are titled, but have given up on trying to fix them. I just try to be consistent within a given article; other articles may use other naming conventions and we've got redirects and piped links to handle that. There are several reasons why I think Latin names are better:

Many monarchs of Poland also reigned over other peoples; and discussing their national or ethnic identities is a moot point (e.g., why "Bolesław the Brave" and not "Boleslav the Brave", if his mother was Czech and he ruled Bohemia for some time?) Using their Polish names may be seen as pushing the Polish point of view.
As Latin was the chancery language of Poland for ages, it is the Latin regnal names, especially for Medieval monarchs, that are actually attested in historical sources.
Latin names are easier to read for English speakers than their Polish counterparts.

— Kpalion^(talk) 00:31, 21 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Early historical souces

Gallus Anonymus, Deeds of Polish Princes (early 12th cent.):
- Boleslaus the Brave hitting the Golden Gate of Kiev in 1018 with a sword of unspecified name
- Boleslaus the Bold doing the same in 1069
Chronicle of Greater Poland (late 13th – early 14th cent.):
- Szczerbiec first mentioned by name
- Sword given to Boleslaus the Brave by an angel
- Boleslaus hitting the Golden Gate of Kiev with the sword in 1018
- Sword stored in the Wawel Cathedral treasury as of the time of writing
Annals of Lesser Poland (late 13th – early 14th cent):
- Boleslaus the Brave hitting the Golden Gate of Kiev in 1018 with a sword of unspecified name
Stanisław of Skarbimierz’s sermon (1413):
- Szczerbiec, described as the weapon of King Boleslaus, mentioned together with the coronation crown
Jan Długosz, Annals or Chronicles of the Glorious Kingdom of Poland (mid-15th cent.):
- Boleslaus the Brave hitting the Golden Gate of Kiev in 1018 with a sword of unspecified name
- Boleslaus the Bold doing the same in 1069
- No sword mentioned among the coronation insignia of Vladislaus the Short brought in 1320 from Gniezno to Kraków for the occasion
- Coronation sword of unspecified name first mentioned at the coronation of Louis Angevin in 1370
- Szczerbiec first mentioned by name under 1412
- Szczerbiec first mentioned by name in a coronation context at the coronation of Casimir Jagiellon in 1447

— Kpalion^(talk) 14:00, 7 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Inscriptions on the hilt

Location	Transcription	Interpretation	Meaning	Interpreted by
Pommel obverse	+REC·FIGVRA·TALET·ADAMORCM·REGVM· T·PRINCIPVM·IRAS·IVDICV·ME	Hec figura valet ad amorem regum [e]t principum iras iudicum	This sign rouses the love of kings and princes, (and) the wrath of judges.
Grip obverse	MARCVS ·LVCAS	Marcus Lucas	Mark Luke
Grip reverse	·IhOANNES MMThCVS	Iohannes Matheus	John Matthew
Crossguard obverse	QVICVMQVEhEC+ NOMIADEIISECVMTV LDRINVLLVMPERIC VL EICOMNINONODBIT CN	Quicumque hec nomina Dei I[ehova] secum tuleri[t] nullum pericul[um] ei omnino nocebit	Whoever these names of God Jehova carries with him, no danger will harm him.	Sadowski
Crossguard obverse		Quicumque hec nomina Dei secum tuleri[t] nullum pericul[um] ei omnino nocebit C[o]n[cito]	Whoever these names of God carries with him, no danger will harm him. I summon...	Budzioch & Tomal
Crossguard reverse	CONCITOMON··EEVE SEDALAI·EBREbEL	Con[or] cit[are] [n]omin[a] Eeve Sedelai Ebrebel	I dare speak the names: Eeve (Ehyeh [asher] Ehyeh vah... Ehyeh, I Am that I Am and... I Am, Exodus 3:14), Sedelai (Shadi Elohi, El Shaddai, God Almighty), Ebrehel (Ab + Rabi El, Father + Omniscient God).	Sadowski
		Kone zitu omon Eeve Sedalai Ebrebel	Fervent faith incite (the names): Eeve (I Am that I Am and... I Am), Sedalai (God Almighty), Ebrehel (Father, Omniscient God).	Sadowski
		Concit[o] Omon Eeve Sedalai [D]ebrehel	I summon: Omon (Faithful), Eeve (Love), Sedalai (Lamb of God), Debrehel (Word of God).	Budzioch & Tomal

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