Jump to content

Talk:Cambyses

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

dab page?

[edit]

if we're going to discuss the etymology of the name, we'll do it here (Cambyses (name)), so this isn't necessarily a disambiguation page. dab (ᛏ) 17:34, 17 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Don't you think the fact that the name travelled as far as Cambodia is encyclopedic? ፈቃደ (ውይይት) 03:58, 18 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sir Henry Creswicke Rawlinson on KABUJIYA/KAMBOJA relationship

[edit]

Kabûjiy-a [1] = Cambyses; Kabûjiy-ahyâ [2] = Cambysis; Kabûjiy-am [3] = Cambysem; Kambûjiy-â [4] = Cambyse

This is a true vernacular orthography of the name which is written as Kambyses by the Greeks and as Kavaus in the Zend and which in the Arabic and modern Persian has given birth to the two distinct forms Kabus and Kavus or Kaus [5]. Mr Burnouf has examined in the most elaborate manner the etymology of Zend Kavaus [6], and has endeavored to show the true signification to be the intelligent king. It is indeed very possible that the desire to obtain this meaning in the sacred language may have induced the compilers of the Zend Avesta, under the Sassanians to disfigure the original form of the name, then only known in popular traditions; but I imagine no one will at present pretend to compare the relative antiquity of the forms of the Kavaus and Kabujiya any more than it would be allowable to derive Kurush from Hycrava [7] , and if we are to seek for the primitive derivation of the name, we must follow the cuneiform rather than the Zend orthography. I suppose, Kabujiya then to signify literally “a bard” from Kab: “to praise” or color and uji: “a speaker”; and I further conjecture that from the king of that name was derived the geographical title Kamboja which, retained to the present day in Kamoj of Cafferistan, became also by a regular orthographical procession Kabus, Kabur and Kabul [8].....In the old Persian, mb was impossible articulation, and the Median confounding as usual the two powers, give the reading of Hamuchiya for the Persian Kabujiya, so that it is not immediately apparent from whence Herodotus obtained his orthography. The native kings of Persis, agreeable to the usual system of oriental nomenclature, appear for several generations to have born the names of Cyrus and Cambyses. The two immediate ancestors of Cyrus the great are named named Cyrus and Cambyses by Herodotus and according to doubtful passage of Diodorus Siculus, preserved by Photius, there was still another Cambyses, the fifth in ascent from the Kabujiya of the inscriptions "[9].

Foot notes from H. C Rawlinson

[edit]
  1. ^ Bh. I. 28, 30, 31, 32, 33, 43, 44 (Nominative).
  2. ^ Bh. I. 29, 30, 39 (Genitive).
  3. ^ Bh. I. 45, 46 (Accusative).
  4. ^ Bh. I. 40 (Ablative).
  5. ^ The Persian historians do not seem to be aware that the name of Kabus, which was borne by the dilemite sovereigns, is the same with the Kaus of Romance; yet the more ancient form of KauBus or Kavuj for the later name renders the identification almost certain. The Georgians even to the present day, name the Hero of the Romance as Kapus, still retaining the labial which has merged in the Persian Kaus.
  6. ^ Yacna, p 438, sqq..
  7. ^ It can hardly be doubted that the Zend Avesta alludes to Cambyses, the elder and Cyrus, the Great under the names of Kai-Kaus and Kai-Khusru; but I consider the actual forms under which the names are expressed, Kava-us and Hycrava to be adoptions of the Sassanian age.
  8. ^ Wilson (Visnu Purana, p 374); Lassen (Ind. Alter., p 439) & Troyer (Rajatarangini, Trans I, p 496) are agreed in identifying Kamboja and Kamoj, but connection of the name Kamboja with that of Kabul has altogether been over-looked. When we remember, however, that Kamboja is not only mentioned in the old Sanskrit books such as the Puranas, Hist. of Cashmir &c but that it is also expressly named in the edicts of king Asoka (Journal of Asiatic Society of Bengal, v VII, p 253) it seems impossible to suppose that the title should have been unknown to the Greek Geography; but if it were indeed known, there can not be more suitable correspondent than the Kaboura of Ptolemy which was the native name for the Paropamisan capital and which exhibits an intermediate form between Kaboura for Kabuja and modern Kabul.
  9. ^ Herod., Lib. 1, c. 111., and Phot. Biblioth. P 1158 (Ed. And. Shot.).

References

[edit]
  • Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society of Great Britain & Ireland, 1849, p 97-98, Sir Henry Creswicke Rawlinson, Published by Cambridge University Press for the Royal Asiatic Society
  • Cuneiform inscriptions: Memoir on Cuneiform Inscription, 1849, p 97, ‎ Sir Henry Creswicke Rawlinson
  • Die Voelker des oestlichen Asien: Studien und Reisen‎ , 1869, p 216, Adolf Bastian, Heinrich Kiepert - Asia, Southeastern
  • Encyclopaedia Britannica: A Standard Work of Reference in Art, Literature etc, i907, pp 648
  • Die altpersischen Keilinschriften: Im Grundtexte mit Uebersetzung, Grammatik ..., 1881, p 86, Friedrich Spiegel - Old Persian inscriptions

Expert attention needed

[edit]

Like some other works on Persian history around the time, this one needs attention from an expert, on these grounds:

1. It is based on very dated sources, late 19th century, we need more from more recent scholarship.

2. If there as much to be said about the earliest Cambyses as this article states then he deserves his own biography, not just inclusion in a disambiguation page. Do we know much about him?

3. Does the shadowy brother of Cyrus deserve his own article?

4. Is the numbering of the 2 later Cambyses well-established, or can we re-number them to take account of the previous one? PatGallacher (talk) 17:11, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Also, the naming of the 2 later Cambyses is over-complex and possibly contradicts Wikipedia guidelines. We do need to disambiguate them, but we just need "Cambyses I" and "Cambyses II", or "Cambyses of Anshan" and "Cambyses of Persia", I would go for the latter approach because of numbering problems created by the earliest bloke. PatGallacher (talk) 17:15, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If you consult the Teispes of Anshan and Cyrus of Anshan articles, they say that Cyrus was the son of Teispes, which makes it difficult to see where you fit in the earliest Cambyses. This even places a question mark over whether we need this page. PatGallacher (talk) 17:36, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I query the notability of this page as it is not clear that the 2 earlier Cambyses' are notable or encyclopedic, at the very least we need something from recent scholarship. The later 2 are, but if you only have 2 people of a name you do not need a dab page. PatGallacher (talk) 19:46, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The addition of the play may now make this page legitimate. It is difficult to find decent works on Ancient Persia, surprisingly given its historical importance. However it does look from works I have consulted, including "Who's Who in the Ancient Near East", that the earliest Cambyses mentioned in previous versions of this article is an unhistorical figure, Teispes of Anshan was followed by Cyrus I.

We could delete this page and the hatnote from Cyrus of Persia could redirect to the 2 other articles. What do people think? PatGallacher (talk) 20:19, 19 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Cambyses&oldid=1241767864"