Talk:Thomas Picton

Questions

Mintguy you added a lot of information about Thomas Picton and made the comment "Adding content from EB11 to be cleaned and merged in" What is EB11? just curious

What about his fame (for eccenticity) by not wearing military uniform, instead a top hat and ordinary suit?

Peerage Denied

He was probably not granted a peerage - or for that matter his widow after his death - due to the belief he was not a gentleman which was almost a sine qua non for ennoblement. Wellington called him a 'rough foul-mouthed devil as ever lived' and certainyl not a gentleman Alci12 17:56, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

He was put on trial for torturing an innocent teenage girl. He got off on a technicality, largely because the army needed his military skills in the Napoleonic Wars, but his general reputation was probably mud for the rest of his life.50.180.19.238 (talk) 00:00, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

Talk page is meant to be for discussion of how to improve the article, not discussing what we think of the article subject. But it should perhaps be be noted that

1. Ms Calderon was a teenager, but only an 'innocent girl' as far as was consistent with being guilty of having assisted her lover to rob the man whose mistress she was of a very large sum
2. Picton did not get off on a technicality; the jury at his retrial found him to have acted without malice as well as finding that judicial torture was legal in Trinidad (On this point, they seem to have been led by the lack of malice to refuse to convict on a technicality - Picton's lawyers had proved only that judicial torture had been prevalent, rather than that it was legal)
3. Given absence of malice, there would be no reason for Picton's reputation to be mud - at worst he would have been technically guilty because he had been wrongly advised on the law. From a modern perspective, torture is a no-no, and 'obeying orders' as a defence went out at Nuremburg, so Picton's defence looks dubious, but then from a modern perspective, some of the charges he was cleared of by the Privy Council look to be clearer bang-to-rights breaches of fundamental human rights. As far as his contemporaries were concerned, it would have been closer to the mark to say that in the Calderon case Picton had been convicted on a technicality, and left the retrial with no noticeable stain on his character.
4. In any case, public opinion had little to do with peerage creation during the Regency; the Crown was still the fount of all honour, and unlikely to ennoble anyone they wouldn't be willing to invite to dinner The History of Parliament website notes of Picton "he was known for his ‘independency of mind’, but his impatient, irascible nature, his caustic tongue and want of convivial gifts were ill suited to Parliament"; they were hardly likely to commend him to Prinny either. Rjccumbria (talk) 19:17, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

The article claims that Calderon confessed, but provides no source. I've provided a source which said that despite the torture, she did not confess.Mikesiva (talk) 07:26, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

Untitled

I have removed a line from the page that was someone's attempt at a joke saying he was founder of bestiality, pornography etc. Some bored moron's idea of a joke, no doubt. (Alexpritchard 22:09, 6 April 2007 (UTC))

New World

Coverage of Picton's stay and conduct, followed by his trial was completely one sided and did not quote facts

Have made many edits in the section, based on the award winning historical work by VS Naipaul, 'Loss of El Dorado' —Preceding unsigned comment added by Puruvara (talk • contribs) 06:00, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately, quite a lot of opinion seems to have crept in either explicitly in the treatment of facts (many felt that the high bail reflected his guilt !); and some of the facts are not all they might be; for example the many charges laid against Picton were decided upon by the Privy Council; the trial before the King's Bench was on the single charge of the judicial torture of Luisa Calderon. As I recall reading the Naipaul book (a'historical work' rather than a history) years ago, I thought his argument was was not that Picton was a brutal monster, but that the system was brutal. (( Picton's defence was in part along those lines: if you thought torture was brutal, look at the slave codes of British colonies; and then ask yourself what would happen under English law to a servant who was party to the theft of £1000 from her master's house. As far as the slave-owning classes were concerned, Fullarton (a Whig MP with strong humanitarian tendencies) was the odd man out)). I will see if I can make time to come back to this Rjccumbria (talk) 21:44, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Picton vs. Crauford or Rowlond Hill.

Glover states in his work "Welling As A Military Commander", that Piction was a good division commander but it was above his abilities to lead a larger unit.

One of Wellington's main disadvantages was the lack of field-commanders who were able to lead and administer corps sized units. Beside Hill there weren't so many. --88.153.182.170 (talk) 23:34, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Burial Place

Although he was originally 'buried' at St Georges, Hanover Square 'the family tomb';- he was later transferred to the Crypt of St. Paul's, I believe, where he's buried 'alongside' Wellington et al. 92.41.240.139 (talk) 22:39, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

Edit warring

An editor is continuously adding extensive additional material on Rosetta Smith to this article. Other editors have removed it on the basis that Smith is already mentioned further up the article, and this is the article about Picton, not about Smith. The edit waring editor should respect WP:BRD Dormskirk (talk) 22:00, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

Pronunciation

Can someone add a pronunciation statement in the lead section? Is it "Pik-ton", "Pie-ton", or something else? Masato.harada (talk) 07:40, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

Welsh?

Picton is an English surname. ParsleySt1 (talk) 09:35, 19 August 2024 (UTC)