Talk:Mods and rockers

Rockers were predominately rural?

This is the first I've ever read/heard that the Rockers were primarily a rural youth-cultural phenomenon. Is there a source for this? This seems to contradict the fact that the centers of Rocker culture in England during the height of the movement were the Ace Cafe and the 59 Club, both based in London. I think the fact that Mod-Rocker clashes happened mostly outside of London was due to the fact that there were large numbers of them and alcohol was involved, as it was usually during bank holidays. I'm sure there were many smaller Mod-Rocker clashes throughout London and other major cities, but that they were on a smaller scale and, thus, less likely to be sensationalized by the media. Any original Rockers (or Mods) who can lend some first-hand perspective to this? AE Logan (talk) 20:17, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

The sources are [23] "Mods were usually city dwellers (it was, by this time, a national phenomenon, although rooted in London), whereas Rockers tended to be more rural" and [24] "Mods and Rockers were not natural enemies, since their geographical areas were separate; Mods were usually from London and Rockers were usually from Northern towns, and physical confrontation between the groups had to be created by having them meet outside of their natural habitats". Of course, neither of these sources are definitive, but the impression seems to be that Mods were more centred on London. Billwilson5060 (talk) 08:03, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Those are blog pages and fail WP:SOURCES --Philip Baird Shearer (talk) 11:13, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

I removed the sentence to here for further discussion:

A BBC article notes that Mods were usually city dwellers, whereas rockers tended to be more rural, with other sources putting their heartlands in the north of England (Jordana Robinson's Mod Paper); in relation to this point, faster but less stylish motorcycles may have had appeal to those who had to travel longer distances. Mods sometimes had office jobs, whereas rockers were often manual workers (although there were many exceptions in both groups).

As I mentioned above http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/classic/A707627 is a blog blog page not a BBC article ("Most of the content on h2g2 is created by h2g2's Researchers, who are members of the public. The views expressed are theirs and unless specifically stated are not those of the BBC."). Changing the words to "A BBC blog page by user-id DogManStar ..." shows why these "facts" should not be on the page. The follow up "in relation to this point, faster but less stylish motorcycles may have had appeal to those who had to travel longer distances. Mods sometimes had office jobs, whereas rockers were often manual workers (although there were many exceptions in both groups)." is pure speculation to justify the earlier statements that are not backed up with reliable sources.

The Robinson blog contains citations, but the blog article is not complete (chopped off in the middle of a quote), so the citations are not listed at the bottom. If someone wishes to follow up the citation clue and check the original paper for the Northern Rocker link then there would be no reason to include the information citing the research paper. --Philip Baird Shearer (talk) 11:35, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

A definitive answer about each side’s terrain will have to come later. Robinson’s source Barnes appears to be the book Mods! by Richard Barnes. Searching for it found this paper about government response in the 60s: [25] and this attempt to look at it from a Liverpool perspective, which does not seem to be much more authoritative than the previous sites: [26]. For more information about the punishments given out, I had earlier found this from the Independent: [27]. It looks more at the “Caesars” quote and what was handed down, as well as taking an overview of the not necessarily violent Mod culture. The Wikipedia article still has a link to the BBC blog citing the quote “Eventually calm was restored and a judge levied heavy fines”, which is a) meaningless in that calm was of course “eventually” restored and b) missing the point that some were jailed. The BBC “on this day” feature mentions that some were jailed, but is currently inaccurately cited as if it was verbatim from the time – click on “about this site” and it says it’s a history project based on sources from then. Finally, there is genuine archive material here: [28] about the possibility of having them flogged as was legal at the time on the Isle of Man. It only mentions mods and rockers briefly but fits in with the view of them as “folk devils”. Billwilson5060 (talk) 20:28, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi folks, I'm an outsider who was just reading your page. Anyway. In the second paragraph of the section "Physical Conflicts" it says "As noted above, there was an urban–rural split, meaning that the groups could only fight if brought together for some reason" This is not mentioned anywhere above in the article and is somewhat confusing. Presumably this is all due to the above discussion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.4.195.51 (talk) 02:57, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

Would the word 'provincial' do instead of 'rural'? I think there is also a social class issue here that isn't examined. Peter York has some interesting stuff to say in Style Wars about the origin - and revival - of Mods.Bluedawe 07:55, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

copyright infringement?

I find that this article is suspiciously similar to one of the links (BBC).

Checking the terms of use of that webpage, they appear to me as being incompatible with the GFDL.

Can anybody confirm if there is a copyright issue here?

And if so, who is copying who? (this article or the BBC one)

If it turns out to be a false alarm, please give reasons and keep them here to avoid future concerns.

I would agree, 18 months later, that this article does indeed appear to be derivative, although there are differences such as the correction suggesting that there was a little musical common ground. The BBC article is linked, which isn't usually what counts as piracy. I don't think this article needs to be thrown out, but I'll try to find if there is an appropriate tag to attach calling for a wider range of sources. Billwilson5060 (talk) 10:48, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

The remaining copyvio from this source has now been removed. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 04:45, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

Mods and Rockers

"They later developed into Hells Angels."

This does not make sense. The Hells Angels were founded in California in the 1940s, so how could they have developed out of a 1960s British youth culture? As far as I know they aren't even present in the British Isles. Can whoever added this sentence explain it, please? --No-One Jones (talk) 09:53, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)

How come there is a separate entry for Mods but Rockers Directs here.

Because no one has gotten around to writing a separate article on Rockers to replace the redirect. Wanna write one? PKM

"The mods adopted a pose of scooter-driving sophistication, wearing suits and other cleancut outfits." True, but the article should mention the parkas the Mods wore, especially on their scooters. In the photographs of mods-on-scooters of the period I seem to recall lots of parkas but rarely a Tonik suit. Marshall46 12:26, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

There is no peace

Why did mods and rockers fight each other? --Abdull 18:36, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

this website gives interesting insight: www.stthomasu.ca/~pmccorm/modsandrockers1.html the mods & rockers never were "Hells Angels", they were merely compared to them by a U.S. newspaper.

Conflicted editor adding content

ColFergStod has added content from what appears to be his own recently published autobiography; this appears to be opinion and may not be considered as neutral and a reliable source. This editor has self-identified at User talk:Jim1138#Mods & RockersColFergStod (talk) 11:21, 28 August 2016 (UTC)) as Colin Stoddart, author/publisher (WP:SPS) of the book (at Amazon), and at User talk:ColFergStod#Help me!.

I am not in favour of amateur writers self-referencing, and feel this needs to be drawn to the attention of the wider community. Editor has been notified at his talk page.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 00:55, 29 August 2016 (UTC)